[AVRnj]

So I am almost certain I am going to buy a Tormach 1100.

I am going through and reading everything I can on this board and trying to figure out what I am going to buy.

I have two questions that I wanted to see if I could get some input on;

Does Tormach ever have sales events or offer discounts?

Do most of you guys use SprutCAM as your CAM program?

I currently use Cut2D but I am not crazy about it and from what I can tell there would be no way to integrate TTS into it. I think VCarvePro would be easier for me to learn, but I don't know that it either integrates with TTS.

My gut feeling is that if Tormach is recommending SprutCAM, than it is probably the way to go. It seems to me that Tormach is kind of like the Apple of CNC machines where they are all about the user experience and everything is very well thought out to work as well together as possible, so I am leaning towards buying and learning SprutCAM but wanted to get some feedback.

Thanks!

[SCzEngrgGroup]

"I currently use Cut2D but I am not crazy about it and from what I can tell there would be no way to integrate TTS into it. I think VCarvePro would be easier for me to learn, but I don't know that it either integrates with TTS."

That makes no sense whatsoever. What dependence do you believe there is between the CAM and TTS? The CAM neither knows, nor cares, about the existence of TTS.

As for SprutCAM, try it before you buy it. Many people find it convoluted, it not downright impenetrable. I tried it, and found it very difficult to use. For 2.5D work, it's hard to beat Inventor + HSMXpress, or, better yet, Solidworks + HSMXpress.

Regards,

[AVRnj]

"I currently use Cut2D but I am not crazy about it and from what I can tell there would be no way to integrate TTS into it. I think VCarvePro would be easier for me to learn, but I don't know that it either integrates with TTS."

That makes no sense whatsoever. What dependence do you believe there is between the CAM and TTS? The CAM neither knows, nor cares, about the existence of TTS.

As for SprutCAM, try it before you buy it. Many people find it convoluted, it not downright impenetrable. I tried it, and found it very difficult to use. For 2.5D work, it's hard to beat Inventor + HSMXpress, or, better yet, Solidworks + HSMXpress.

Regards,

I worded the TTS question incorrectly.

What I really was saying was being able to put different tool heights or offsets into the CAM program so that you don't have to keep setting the height after tool changes, nothing more. I have never used TTS so I honestly have no idea how to use it within CAM.

I will check out HSMXpress.

[Jabs1542]

Ray brings up a point to consider, your CAM software will require a file from your CAD software. If you have neither then you may want to consider; a) their integration, and/or b) their combined costs. Solidworks is heavy duty and rather expensive for a hobbyist, however I think the HSMXpress is a free CAM add on (so you pay for the CAD and get the CAM for free). Personally I drank the Tormach cool aid and got IronCad along with SprutCAM, they are both powerful enough for my needs and (combined price) cost about half the price of Solidworks.

As for Cut2D and VCarvePro, I have both and they handle tool changes the same way - as in not directly supporting them at all (I.e. separate tool paths = separate GCode files, zero each tool, etc.).

[SCzEngrgGroup]

I worded the TTS question incorrectly.

What I really was saying was being able to put different tool heights or offsets into the CAM program so that you don't have to keep setting the height after tool changes, nothing more. I have never used TTS so I honestly have no idea how to use it within CAM.

I will check out HSMXpress.

That is not how it's done. Tool lengths are handled by the controller software (Mach3 in this case), NOT the CAM software. The CAM simply needs to provide the G43/G49 commands to use them. Any decent CAM will do this.

Regards,
Ray L.

[AVRnj]

Jabs,

What I do right now is design in my CAD program and export as a DXF file.

I then go into my CAM and import the vectors and create my tool paths, I am assuming that is pretty standard and I should be able to use my current CAD regardless of CAM, but I may be wrong.


Ray, I did not realize that, I assumed that the tool paths would handle the Z height differently according to the tool. That is good to know, so maybe for the time being I can even get by with my Cut2D.

I have a lot to learn.

[mountaindew]

As a new Tormach owner I can offer some insite
Cam software is used to import your 2d lines or 3d models and generate tool paths and operations.
The post processor generates the code for the mach control software.
I don't have experience with the software your talking about. I did not buy the cheaper lower level software because from what I could tell they allow only 1 tool in the program!
Sprutcam, works well for me. It requires a decent cad program to draw or design in and sprutcam to model the tool paths in. I wanted it because it works in x,y,z,a axis and lathes also for 1 price from tormach.
All CAD/CAM can be hard to get going "THESE PROGRAMS ARE NOT PHONE APPS" they do something and require a good level of understanding and time to master.
IMHO decide for yourself on these programs as everyone has a different level of software understanding and needs. Get demos and use them.
I use Bobcad also for drawing and 2d cam tool paths and find it to be a powerful and usefull program and will master it also over time.
Note CAD/CAM programs like $prut, $olid Work$ or any other complex software requires a good computer to make them stable and perform.
I use a clean workstation class computer "no games , no crap ware" just operating system, cad, cam and associated software. 12gb memory, solid state drives, uber fast sli workstation graphics cards. 3 lcd monitors
Must say it makes the software shine, few problems , few crashes, fast and fun!

As for the machine options. imho the machine base, auto oiler and power draw bar, jog pendent are a must. TTs starter set with height gauge is also required along with machinist vise and keys makes work holding easy.
That gets things on the way, of course way oil......... vise...... clamps..... indicators........the list becomes huge if you don't have all these tools or they are of poor quality.

Anyway I agree they have made this a easy system to get going. I put my system together with 0.00 help and no tech support.
I will qualify that I have a masters in building complicated things and from my point of view this was a simple assembly.
Overall it took me little time after that to start making ANYTHING I can draw!

Some simple opinions from a user!
Hope it helps
md
ps software like CAM programs can be used and mastered much faster if you let go and try to work the way they do and not the way you do! "try to adapt"

[mountaindew]

Ray brings up a point to consider, your CAM software will require a file from your CAD software. If you have neither then you may want to consider; a) their integration, and/or b) their combined costs. Solidworks is heavy duty and rather expensive for a hobbyist, however I think the HSMXpress is a free CAM add on (so you pay for the CAD and get the CAM for free). Personally I drank the Tormach cool aid and got IronCad along with SprutCAM, they are both powerful enough for my needs and (combined price) cost about half the price of Solidworks.

As for Cut2D and VCarvePro, I have both and they handle tool changes the same way - as in not directly supporting them at all (I.e. separate tool paths = separate GCode files, zero each tool, etc.).

ok I was right ... they don't do tool changes. figured I read that right when shopping

[AVRnj]

mountaindew, thanks for the insite!

Much appreciated. I am new to CNC but I do have about a year of experience. I have a little SX2 that I converted myself so I am familiar with tool paths, mach3 etc.

I am still very much a newbie since I had zero machining experience before hand, but I do have some basics down.

Basically I am going the Tormach route because I want to spend more time making parts than I do working on my converted CNC which I do now.

[FuriousGeorge]

Hi AVR,

To answer your first question, Does Tormach ever have sales events... Not really. They give you a discount if you buy over 5 (I think, I could be wrong) TTS holders, which you will definitely need. As for the mill itself and other big goodies, no, I have never seen a sale on a mill. Little Machine Shop (https://littlemachineshop.com/produc...ory=1871716280) sells some Tormach gear, and they may have sales on it, but I'm not positive.

As for CAM, my advice would be the same as Mountaindew's: Try it before you buy it! You can get demos of pretty much any CAM software for free, so just try a few and see what you like the most. I use CAMworks, which is integrated into Solidworks, so I love it. The BIG advantage of using SprutCAM is you can call Tormach for support and trust me, if you're learning CAM for the first time you will definitely need some. There will definitely be a learning curve, but it is really rewarding once you get there.

[mike sr1]

One thing to consider is an integrated CAD CAM package, I use Rhino 4 for CAD and Sprutcam 7 for CAM and when I change a feature in the CAD drawing I have to reimport it into Sprut and set up the op's again, I save the ops in default parameters, that isnt so bad but then I have to reselect all the holes edges etc.

Something to consider as well as the cost.......

[AVRnj]

George and Mike, thanks for the info, much appreciated.

I think I will hold off on ordering CAM for now and try out a few to see which I like best.

One last thing I need to figure out is a Passive probe or an analog Haimer. I think other than that I know exactly what I am getting.

[mountaindew]

George and Mike, thanks for the info, much appreciated.

I think I will hold off on ordering CAM for now and try out a few to see which I like best.

One last thing I need to figure out is a Passive probe or an analog Haimer. I think other than that I know exactly what I am getting.

I love the haimer, its like automatic transmission verse manual transmission on a car. This is compared to edge finders that require the spindle on ... touch off and zero.
A passive probe would also be nice from what I see they work just about the same, or even better at x,y, location. The haimer will also do z height and indicate a part or a vise square all in 1 tool. I can pop it in set x,y, and z in less then 1 minute along with power draw bar, pop it out, put in 1st tool and ctrl r your going! Passive probe would be about same only no z, I was thinking anyway. You need to change the probe to a height gauge to set Z and then 1st tool ctrl r and on your way! 1 less operation is all.

Hope this help
md

[AVRnj]

md, I am leaning in that direction as well for all the reasons you mention. Thanks for the feedback!

[FuriousGeorge]

I love the haimer, its like automatic transmission verse manual transmission on a car. This is compared to edge finders that require the spindle on ... touch off and zero.
A passive probe would also be nice from what I see they work just about the same, or even better at x,y, location. The haimer will also do z height and indicate a part or a vise square all in 1 tool. I can pop it in set x,y, and z in less then 1 minute along with power draw bar, pop it out, put in 1st tool and ctrl r your going! Passive probe would be about same only no z, I was thinking anyway. You need to change the probe to a height gauge to set Z and then 1st tool ctrl r and on your way! 1 less operation is all.

Hope this help
md

THIS! I love my Haimer, it is the most useful tool I own. Also, What Mike said about a CAM/CAD package is very true. I have one and it saves me tremendous time when I make little changes. Not really sure what is out there for programs other than solidworks, but I'm sure there are plenty of options.

[mountaindew]

THIS! I love my Haimer, it is the most useful tool I own. Also, What Mike said about a CAM/CAD package is very true. I have one and it saves me tremendous time when I make little changes. Not really sure what is out there for programs other than solidworks, but I'm sure there are plenty of options.

I also 100% agree with this!
A parametric cad cam system is the top shelf or bin stuff!
I have a valve model on my screen right now that it would be so awesome to change the size of the O-ring and have it change every part in the model and update all the cam tool paths
Solid works full systems "I have never set behind one" or programs of like it would be nothing but awesome. I love to draw and this would just be an added bonus.
md

[AVRnj]

Thanks guys, you sold me on the Haimer.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

I love the haimer, its like automatic transmission verse manual transmission on a car. This is compared to edge finders that require the spindle on ... touch off and zero.
A passive probe would also be nice from what I see they work just about the same, or even better at x,y, location. The haimer will also do z height and indicate a part or a vise square all in 1 tool. I can pop it in set x,y, and z in less then 1 minute along with power draw bar, pop it out, put in 1st tool and ctrl r your going! Passive probe would be about same only no z, I was thinking anyway. You need to change the probe to a height gauge to set Z and then 1st tool ctrl r and on your way! 1 less operation is all.

Hope this help
md

A simple passive probe and good probing macros can do all the same things, for near $0. My "probe" is a 1/4" TTS set-screw holder with a short length of 1/4" brass round in it., set to t a gauge length of exactly 3.000" A 3/4" x 1-1/2" piece of PCB material with a wire soldered to it completes the system. I can zero all three axes to a few tenths in under 30 seconds. Best part is, if I do something stupid, and crash it, all I lose is about 25 cents worth of 1/4" brass. Cut a new piece, finish the end on a lathe, and I'm back in business in a few minutes. No $90 replacement tips. Things like the Haimer are very useful, and much more flexible, as they can be used for many more measurements, but for simply setting up the machine it seems like expensive over-kill to me. And when it comes to zeroing to a corner, the center of a hole, the middle of a face, or other complex geometry, it can all be automated with a probe, but not with a Haimer.

Regards,
Ray L.

[Hirudin]

The Passive Probe will set Z.

I'll put in 2¢ about CAM...

I've been doing hobby CNC milling for a few years now. I still consider myself to be a novice though.

Finding a CAM program that's worth a damn is no easy task! I've found that few of them offer a trial version, and ifa trial is available it typically will not generate G-code, and if it generates G-code the post processor might need tweaking before it's reliable. This is what I've seen with the mid-to-high tier packages I've looked at. I wouldn't be surprised if the lower-end packages are more willing to let people install and try a demo version before buying.

I have SolidCAM and although it does a downright decent job of generating toolpaths most of the time there are also plenty of moments when it's a colossal POS. Being able to change the model and have the toolpaths autoupdate is nice, but it's definitely not as foolproof as you might expect. Their support has been very good. RhinoCAM was the same way: decent most of the time but a steaming turd fairly often as well. I have not tried HSM Express yet. Seems like it's definitely worth a look. If I remember correctly, I was impressed by SprutCAM, but there was some flaw that prevented me from seriously considering it. I might be confusing it with Dolphin CAM.

Good luck! I hope I haven't dissuaded you.

[AVRnj]

A simple passive probe and good probing macros can do all the same things, for near $0. My "probe" is a 1/4" TTS set-screw holder with a short length of 1/4" brass round in it., set to t a gauge length of exactly 3.000" A 3/4" x 1-1/2" piece of PCB material with a wire soldered to it completes the system. I can zero all three axes to a few tenths in under 30 seconds. Best part is, if I do something stupid, and crash it, all I lose is about 25 cents worth of 1/4" brass. Cut a new piece, finish the end on a lathe, and I'm back in business in a few minutes. No $90 replacement tips. Things like the Haimer are very useful, and much more flexible, as they can be used for many more measurements, but for simply setting up the machine it seems like expensive over-kill to me. And when it comes to zeroing to a corner, the center of a hole, the middle of a face, or other complex geometry, it can all be automated with a probe, but not with a Haimer.

Regards,
Ray L.

Ray, this sounds very cool. Are there any plans for such a system that you know of?