[cnctoolman]

Wouldn't it be more beneficial to use servos, or even hybrid steppers?

I would be more apt to look at a Tormach if it used servos as a second op machine.

[Al_The_Man]

One word, economics.
Al.

[GLCarlson]

Go read the design white papers. Tormach has been exquisitely clear about the choices made, the trade-offs, and the results.

To pre-quote one of our esteemed members: if you want a $60K machine, buy that.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Wouldn't it be more beneficial to use servos, or even hybrid steppers?

I would be more apt to look at a Tormach if it used servos as a second op machine.

Novakon offers your choice of steppers or AC servos on all their machines.... Even an AC servo spindle on the Pulsar. The steppers will do up to 350 IPM, the AC servos up to 500 IPM.

Regards,
Ray L.

[wbleeker]

Ray
With all due respect, if you want to plug Novakon, why don' t you just do it on their forum? I know you are very knowledgable etc in this field, but this is the Tormach forum and not the Novakon forum! I as have many others have no problems with the way Tormach runs their business,makes their machines and above all looks after their customers! And I don't understand why you need to continually put crap on their products?
Will

[philbur]

Novakon offers your choice of steppers or AC servos on all their machines.... Even an AC servo spindle on the Pulsar. The steppers will do up to 350 IPM, the AC servos up to 500 IPM.

Regards,
Ray L.

What is/was the price difference if any?

Phil

[SCzEngrgGroup]

What is/was the price difference if any?

Phil

Gee, Phil.... I don't want to get accused of "crap" or "slagging" by giving someone information about anything non-Tormach. All prices, and other specs, are readily available on the respective websites.

Regards,
Ray L.

[philbur]

Gee, Phil.... I don't want to get accused of "crap" or "slagging" by giving someone information about anything non-Tormach. All prices, and other specs, are readily available on the respective websites.

Regards,
Ray L.

I thought you had a thicker skin.:boxing:

I was interested to see a today real world example of stepper cost versus servo, but not that interested to spend time looking it up. Just thought it might help take the discussion out of the realm of "he said she said".:idea:

Phil

[SCzEngrgGroup]

I thought you had a thicker skin.:boxing:

I was interested to see a today real world example of stepper cost versus servo, but not that interested to spend time looking it up. Just thought it might help take the discussion out of the realm of "he said she said".:idea:

Phil

On the Novakons, the AC servos are about a $3K option (though they reduced it to $2K as a special at Cabin Fever last weekend). Frankly, though, I see little benefit. Mine started as a stepper machine, and by adding a motion controller to reduce jitter on the step pulses, I was able to run 350 IPM with zero problems. I upgraded to AC servos (mostly just to facilitate my ATC development), and can now run 500, which really doesn't make any significant difference in throughput. The servos are quieter, but that's about the only advantage I see. Of course, they will throw a fault if you lose position, but I never once lost position with the steppers.

Regards,
Ray L.

[Tormachmaster]

The fact is Tormach thought all the options out and produces solid stable machine for a low cost. I have not ran into any problems with my Tormach cutting parts but heck i also see guys useing Mazaks all day long with crap results. It is up to the operator/programmer to adjust for what machine he or she is useing as for costs they all vary but there are not a whole lot of choices out there in Tormach's price range. I would not change a thing simply save more money if you are looking for more.

[ger21]

And I don't understand why you need to continually put crap on their products?

Where did he do that?
I think he was just pointing out what servos will give you vs steppers.

[wbleeker]

Maybe it's just a difference of opinion Gerry, but perhaps Ray should post comments like that on the Novakon forum or elsewhere

[wbleeker]

Ok thought about it a bit more, yes servos are better than steppers! However Tormach has chosen to use steppers over servos, for reasons outlined in their white paper . I am just not very comfortable / happy with the fact that people seem to come onto the forum and slag the product in question, especially when they don't actually own the product

[ger21]

I am just not very comfortable / happy with the fact that people seem to come onto the forum and slag the product in question, especially when they don't actually own the product

Nobody did.

I'm not very happy when Tormach owners are constantly complaining when people that don't own Tormach's have an opinion.

I was actually expecting a post similar to yours.

[Gerry Sweetland]

Nobody did.

I'm not very happy when Tormach owners are constantly complaining when people that don't own Tormach's have an opinion.

I was actually expecting a post similar to yours.

I don't know, just my opinion and probably based more on seat of the pants feel than fact but in the past couple of years there have been maybe two or three threads from people other than Ray that were really negative against Tormach and the actual Tormach owners came back quite quickly and quite sharply in rebuttal? I think everyone who frequents this forum in the last couple of years knows that more often than not Ray will take any opportunity he can to have a negative comment about Tormach (although usually hidden in the content of some sort of sage advice post) and some how get in a plug for Novakon. All based as it would appear because of his ongoing or past legal goings on and attitude towards Tormach. I think everyone sees it, but when community moderators post in support of the guy I give up. I'm tired of seeing his posts on this forum. I don't frequent here as often as I did and him and all the argument he creates is the main reason. I guess I'm not happy when Ray is constantly posting his opinion about Tormach.
But I'm nobody and this is just my 2 cents.
Gerry

[sansbury]

I'm a tormach owner, bought last year after comparing with Novakon. Liked Novakon's specs better, felt safer with investing in tormach as a company. No regrets, my 1100 has done everything I wanted it to, but happy too that Novakon is still going strong. The more of a competitor they are, the more it will force Tormach to innovate and offer us better products. I have nothing but good things to say about Tormach but anyone shopping them ought to shop Novakon too.

Ray's remark is on topic for the post and it's a fair question. Tormach's basic design is approaching ten years old. Twenty years ago a PCNC was impossible. Maybe ten years ago steppers were the best choice. If they were starting from a blank slate today would they still be? Times change, the answer might too.

[Tkamsker]

I agree with sansbury ... I Do retrofit it steppers and servos. Both have pro and con i think tormach paper is clear probably they will in Future offer the option we will See ..

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[LeeWay]

There is nothing stopping a guy from retrofitting a machine to his liking. Install some nice servo's and drives. I'm sure the steppers and drives could be Ebayed to recoup at least some of the cost. I imagine a matched stepper motor and drive set might sell pretty quickly. I would think the original cabling might have to go with. Not sure you could use the same with servo's.

Just an option. Food for thought.

[Tkamsker]

Hi,
The retro is an good idea. I think if you choose good combo it would not be expensive. I would use Granite devices VSD-E in Multi mode so you only need 2x Drivers (199,19$ per drive) 3 cable sets 20$ per Set and 3 BL70-300 Motors 173,4$ then you need 12V for the drives so it yould roughly sum up 1008,58$ And to really use the force of steppers i would recommend an PCI Card like generalmechatronics or mesa for 250-350 $
Everyone has to tell if it is worth for him ,..

[Tkamsker]

That is the reason i Look ed up the solution i would use up for the People and everyone has to answer for himself if that 1300$ is Worth for his goals i understand and support why tormach use steppers

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