[RCaffin]

Hi all

Like so many others I have struggled to find a source of decent machining aluminium here in Oz.
To be sure, I can get 2011 in rounds in larger sizes. This is nice stuff.
I can get 6082 alloy from Edcon in a few profiles. This is much better than 6060 and 6061 for machining, but again it comes in limited sizes.
I can sometimes get 5082 sheet, which is almost machinable. OK, it is so much better than the bending alloys like 5005 chewing gum that it isn't funny.
But where can I get lumps of a really good alloy like 7075-T6?

It seems there are two answers. I can get one of the importers to import a large quantity, like 50 m, for a very large price - say 2-3x American retail. Otherwise they don't want to know me.

However, I have recently found www.Fortal.com in America. Fortal is very close to 7075 alloy, and is extensively used in aerospace gear. It machines beautifully! (And is as hard as mild steel too.) The guy running the web site buys offcuts from large companies and resells them. He has a spreadsheet catalogue listing them all: ask him for a copy. Basically they are mostly 'blocks' and thick plates - anywhere from 14 mm thick up to 130 mm thick. Yeah - solid stuff! Being 'offcuts', they are NOT as expensive as new material. He is willing to pack a number of bits (you specify from his catalog) into a USPS Medium Box (max wt 20 lb) and post the box to Oz for ~$60. Sure, the postage is heavy, but the metal still works out cheaper than buying locally. I am into my 2nd box full.

Cheers
Roger

[mrmick]

Have you tried ThyssenKrupp aerospace?

Never had a drama machining the 6061, the furniture extruded stuff is very sticky. Capral over here have stopped cutting ally plate (like we want to buy a whole sheet each time!!). I got some quotes for a job coming up 450 dia by 260 thick and thyssenkrupp were more than half the price of capral, they also did the 7 series as well, nice blokes on the phone. Bohler also told me they had off cuts but they were shorter than 700mm due to their saw's here in perth you may find their different where you are.

Mick

[RCaffin]

Hi MrMick

I will check them out here in Sydney. Thank you.

Cheers
Roger

[RCaffin]

TYPO!!!

However, I have recently found www.Fortal.com in America.

Make that www.fortal.biz, not .com!

Cheers
Roger

[mrmick]

No worries Roger keep us posted on how you go.

They also do a free material handbook off their website, shows what they carry and which aircraft manufacturers use what grades and a few other bits of useful info to. My son and I are into rc models and he loved the photo's as big and small boys do. Your lucky being local, they do shipping as well which considering I was quoted on near a ton of ally (4x billets for mag wheels and 1 block of 7 series for a billet engine big block) was $150 for the pallet to here in Perth and $5 a piece for heat certs not bad considering sydney to perths is allways expensive (4 to 5k to transport a machining center) and their was a fair bit of weight. I'd use them more but don't often get long enough lead times a few of the blokes I know have been using them for a while and reckon with shipping its still cheaper than our local suppliers but we get screwed here in perth.
The other option for off cuts is see if theirs a bigger water cutter near by they often get offcuts and are usually willing to sell it at scrap prices, which maybe more their but we only get 1.20/kg for solid and a mere 30 cents for clean swarf, compared to ally cans at 75 cents a kilo it has me scratching my head and thinking about finding a local casters, especially after the last set of wheels I did with over 400kg of swarf would have re cast some nice billets.

Mick

What didn't you like about the 6061?

[RCaffin]

Hi mrmick

Lots of good ideas there! Thank you.

The price for the cans - there may be a bit of a govt subsidy there? Not sure. Of course, with cans you are getting some good alloy. makes good shims. :-)

The 6061 - well, they keep shipping 6060 instead, which is softer. Maybe it's just the Capral distributors.

> but we get screwed here in perth.
We get screwed here in OZ (compared to the States).

I have found that the surface of some carbide cutters is a shade rough at the microscopic level, and the softer aluminiums (including 6060) tend to stick a bit more. Once Al starts to stick it is a short trip to melt down. The imported 6082 seems a whole lot better. The surface of HSS seems to have a more polished surface and the Al does not stick to it as well. I did also read somewhere that Al tends to stick to TiAlN coatings a bit, but not to TiN. Not done any good tests myself, just a few observations (spelt 'broken cutters').

Then there was the 6060 rod 'they' shipped to me one time which turned out to be CP. Some sort of 1000-series bending alloy I think. Didn't take long for me to notice the difference! The supplier very quickly replaced it, which made me wonder if I was not the first to complain!

Cheers
Roger

[RCaffin]

Hi mrmick

I can't even FIND the TK web site for aluminium!
Help? please!

Cheers
Roger

[mrmick]

ThyssenKrupp Aerospace - ThyssenKrupp Aerospace

We're all getting screwed in AUS but here in WA its worse we're getting spit roasted. They mine the bauxite here yet our prices are the worst in the world.......even compared to you guys in the east.

Don't have number on me but ring sydney and ask for sales think it's 61 297 57 7777 (international)
email [email protected] I'd recommend the phone though. Capral are shocking and don't even respond to quotations or call you back, if you do get lucky and they give you a quote its like one or two weeks so if any of the head honchos read this lift your game before you cry that sales in WA have gone down and you lay off staff, as its like that for everyone I know ever since one steel bought them out.

That's the number off the website not in my phone got it written down somewhere but you'd be able to work it out. PM me if you get stuck not allways checking the zone I'll shoot you my email address. At least I check that. Being here in Perth would love to know if they have offcuts as I can slip it into a customer order for transport.

Mick

[RCaffin]

Hi Mick

I'll chase.

Cheers
Roger

[mrmick]

Hey Roger, You have a win?

Mick

[RCaffin]

Haven't had time yet. Sorry. Too many deadlines.

Cheers

[mactec54]

Hi all
However, I have recently found www.Fortal.com in America. Fortal is very close to 7075 alloy, and is extensively used in aerospace gear. It machines beautifully! (And is as hard as mild steel too.) The guy running the web site buys offcuts from large companies and resells them. He has a spreadsheet catalogue listing them all: ask him for a copy. Basically they are mostly 'blocks' and thick plates - anywhere from 14 mm thick up to 130 mm thick. Yeah - solid stuff! Being 'offcuts', they are NOT as expensive as new material. He is willing to pack a number of bits (you specify from his catalog) into a USPS Medium Box (max wt 20 lb) and post the box to Oz for ~$60. Sure, the postage is heavy, but the metal still works out cheaper than buying locally. I am into my 2nd box full.

Glad you made use of the information I posted, the guy that sells the off cuts, works for the company were he get's the off-cuts from, he operates there Blanchard Grinders , & will grind any of the plate if you need it, he does also have some on his site that he has ground already

One thing when machining Fortal don't use any chlorinated or cutting fluids with sulfur in it, or you will get black spots & slight erosion on the material surface, but like you said it is a great material work with & machine

[RCaffin]

Yeah, Scott is very helpful.

One thing when machining Fortal don't use any chlorinated or cutting fluids with sulfur in it, or you will get black spots & slight erosion on the material surface

I find an air blast with the occasional puff of mist quite satisfactory for most aluminium. For mist fluid I use a mix of 3 parts kero to 1 part olive oil. No, it is not a coolant: it just wets the cutters to stop the aluminium from sticking to them. Totally different concept.

Cheers
Roger

[mactec54]

RCaffin

Try canola oil it is better for heat, & cheaper, a lot of people use mist of some kind

Denatured Alcohol works great in a mix as well

[RCaffin]

Hi Mactec

Canola oil - noted. But the bottle of olive oil was on the shelf in the shed and 10 years old. :-)
(To explain: I use olive oil rather than machine oil on all garden pruning gear. Machine oil tends to harm whatever bush or tree is being cut, while vegetable oil does not. But a bottle lasts an awful long time.)

Alcohol - yeah, good, but by the end of the day you can have a bit of a hangover. Or so a friend who tried it told me. :-)
And it has a much lower flash point too!

Cheers

[mactec54]

Alcohol - yeah, good, but by the end of the day you can have a bit of a hangover. Or so a friend who tried it told me. :-)
And it has a much lower flash point too!

These guys use the Alcohol all the time, & don't have those problems, I have seen the machines running at industrial shows & you can hardly smell the alcohol at all, I think it is mixed with distilled water

DATRON High-Speed CNC Machines with Automation! - YouTube

[RCaffin]

Hi Mactec

Terrifying! The speed of that spindle... But I do like the small focused blast. I try to do that, but mine is not that good. Yet.

Yeah, maybe they can use alcohol, but their machines probably have positive extraction to the outside. And maybe they can mix it with water and not get rust because the entire machine is made from high tensile stainless steel, even the bearings.
Sigh.

Cheers

[mactec54]

RCaffin

They are a nice machine,there are different spindle options, the base table is granite, I found out a little more about what they are using, 99% Denatured ethanol straight, it is thinner than water based cutting fluids, so can get into the areas that need it, They only recommend it's use for non-ferrous metals

It would be good to experiment to try different Alcohol mixes, to make it safer to use

[RCaffin]

You know, what I would love is to have the time to make something like one of these. They have several fascinating features, quite apart from the spindle speed and the feed rates.

For a start, these look like gantry machines. Shock horror: surely gantry machines are only good for routers and timber ... ?

Second, by using a gantry config they have access to a most excellent ATC system. The drawer pops open, the spindle selects a tool, extracts it, and the drawer shuts. All the hassles of a rotating turret are gone!

And it did not escape me that they have a touch probe mounted in the tool rack too. Plus room for a ZTO.

Sigh.

[Coxsteve]

I can certainly recommend Fortal Plate, Stan Sainty the Top Fuel Drag racer uses it for his Connecting Rods and I worked at the shop where we used to Close and Hone his new Rods for him on a Sunnen Machine,
What we found was the Fortal Connecting Rods would take an initial set after the first use and after that never change dimensionally, Now that is impressive for Alloy Connecting Rods, Nothing gets a harder time than Connecting Rods in an Engine what with Stretch and Compression forces and no Engine works those components harder than a Top Fueller.

Remember the biggest clearances in any Engine are to take into account Connecting Rod Stretch which gives you an Idea of just How hard they are worked.