[mountaindew]

wow very cool, eventually I'll get a 4th. I seem to remember something about a 4th and the ATC but can't remember - anything I should know?

Thanks!

From what I see in cam simulations, tool holder and tool lengths need to be considered with or without a ATC.
I have been working with tomb stone and tool maker vise configurations that add more x/z envelope height.
Using this strategy moves smaller parts to positions that clear tool holders better for multi side operations, the trade off is shorter tools in the holders and less reach / depth.
Attachment 253322

Very nice looking simulation, MD.

Thanks again!

The best part is most of my work runs and completes parts the first time its loaded on mill.
I do enjoy developing my cam skills.
Recently set down and created a master tool kit using a kbc and enco tool catalogue. Some serious time went into defining hundreds of drills, mills, taps, counter sinks, chamfers, dovetails, key cutters, reamers, arbor saws and engravers to mention most of the types. Nearly 1000 tools complete with accurate holders and overhangs. This will help me spot problem combinations and speed setting up general cam operations.
Also the tool database in sprutcam is a source of problems and errors when edited often. I think I can reduce this problem by initializing a complete data structure of all tools that is accurate and stable. Then copy/move as needed to projects for operations. It has already helped a great deal to have a master tool list, only time and use will verify this will reduce errors.
Anyway setting up tools in the database has been a major pain in the past and very confusing to say the least and having this done should reduce that distraction.
Not that all the pain is over, Im now working on a complete set of tormach lathe tool holders and inserts, complete with all the parameters for feeds/ speeds/ diameters and materials.
At the same time getting some extra cam experience setting up lathe operations for future addition of this tool to my shop.

md

[mountaindew]

My first trolley crane!

Getting ready to setup 4th axis and wanted to solve the issue of moving the tool on and off mill. lifting 100 lbs or more is not good for my hands yet alone the tool or the precision surfaces it mounts on. Also at same time provide a system I can build on in my shop for rigging and moving heavy materials, parts or tools in general.
First part is standard electrical steel strut available from big box hardware for about 25$ per 10ft painted. This can be placed and mounted in logical manor to provide lifting and moving to most locations in my shop. These can be used single run, in parallel as a bridge trolley just depends where and how they are mounted and how you rig to them.
Attachment 257168

Next part is the trolley hardware. I purchased made pre engineered units with a weight rating of aprox. 600 lbs per trolley plate from McMaster! "these could be made"

Attachment 257170

Hardware ready for mock up

Attachment 257172


Trolley set about where it will be mounted to ceiling joists with lag screws at 1ft on center.


Attachment 257174

Close up of trolley in strut.

Attachment 257176

Next picture group will show it mounted along one ceiling truss on a painted 2x4 mounting base with lag screws.





md

[CadRhino]

Very nice. What kind of cradle and hoist are you designing? Looking forward to the next pictures.

My first trolley crane!

Getting ready to setup 4th axis and wanted to solve the issue of moving the tool on and off mill. lifting 100 lbs or more is not good for my hands yet alone the tool or the precision surfaces it mounts on. Also at same time provide a system I can build on in my shop for rigging and moving heavy materials, parts or tools in general.
First part is standard electrical steel strut available from big box hardware for about 25$ per 10ft painted. This can be placed and mounted in logical manor to provide lifting and moving to most locations in my shop. These can be used single run, in parallel as a bridge trolley just depends where and how they are mounted and how you rig to them.
Attachment 257168

Next part is the trolley hardware. I purchased made pre engineered units with a weight rating of aprox. 600 lbs per trolley plate from McMaster! "these could be made"

Attachment 257170

Hardware ready for mock up

Attachment 257172


Trolley set about where it will be mounted to ceiling joists with lag screws at 1ft on center.


Attachment 257174

Close up of trolley in strut.

Attachment 257176

Next picture group will show it mounted along one ceiling truss on a painted 2x4 mounting base with lag screws.

md

[mountaindew]

My first Turners cube!

I upgraded sprutcam from 8 to 9 and wanted to do some testing and review before sending the ver 8 key back to tormach.
Figured a turners cube would be easy to draw and a good test model to verify sprut works Mostly the way it should

Attachment 257958

Quick design drawing ready for import into sprut. From what I see the file interchange works much better with no strange extra surfaces now and then.

Attachment 257960

Setup coordinate systems for all 6 sides and then setup tool paths for all sides.

Attachment 257962

Run simulation and reviewed results and completed part.

Attachment 257964
Generate g-code and copy to mill control.

New version from my point of view works well. It has some errors when posting g-code and some other annoyances when generating tool paths for multisided parts.
Mostly stuff to keep eye on and work around. I found all the copy, select and graphic functions work better and render cleaner. Not much else to comment on at this point. Not an easy program to use and I found there is a learning curve even if you take a week or two off from use. I found myself trying to remember how to do certain operations and setups.
md

[mountaindew]

Decided My fun project needed more detail for more complete testing of sprut 9 and post processor.
Made changes and added holes to model. Revised cam model adding spot, size and tap operations of 8-32 screws.
No big deal, with decent cad cam tools this can be done with little effort "after learning how of course".

Attachment 258514

Note this was very fragile for run and features broke out on 5th side due to depth of cut.

Attachment 258512

Revise cam parameters and its ready for next run.
Fun little test with 6 operations per side
md

[BAMCNC.COM]

Pretty cool! You are a master of Sprut, that is for sure.

[mountaindew]

Pretty cool! You are a master of Sprut, that is for sure.

Thanks a bunch for comment!
I follow your work also and always enjoy picking up ideas and learning from your videos and others. I see A bunch more how to videos these days, nycnc is turning out more and better content also, He has upgraded his cam even lol . Makes for interesting viewing when the technology is more current and high tech and reflects what these tools can do!

Im doing much the same! Trying to assemble a good skill set. Cad, Cam, and mill setup.
I find when I focus to much on design I lose a little in cam and machine work or vise versa. Didn't use sprut for a couple weeks when I did this, I was fumbling around big time. I did do this as a test and setup the whole thing from new file, not a saved template. Doing this adds about 10x more work for setting all the ucs systems and I also did all the operations from scratch. Setting everything up for tc threading cycle with all the hole ops can be some work. Anyway little extra effort for both testing and skill refinement. Like anything you practice you get better at . " can be scary at times how fast I move the hamier x,y,z probe these days "
md

[BAMCNC.COM]

I think getting Fusion 360 and being able to basically use HSMWorks would change your mind about CAM. It is SO easy, my 5 year old could probably hand me a part in under an hour.

[mountaindew]

I think getting Fusion 360 and being able to basically use HSMWorks would change your mind about CAM. It is SO easy, my 5 year old could probably hand me a part in under an hour.

Hand you a broken part of your machine "this is not that easy!"

I have no problem and I don't mind learning. Its not about a 5 year old doing this. Its more about having powerful tools and knowing how to use them.
Fusion, autocad, solid works sprutcam, tormach..........whatever are just tools to me! and I learn and use the tools best I can.
Its not weather this is better or that is easy. I know better already, they are all complex if not then they are LIMITED! I don't want limits and I plan on extending all my cad and cam experience right into other machines and leverage the skills I have proven so far. We had a conversation a while back about 2d and 3d and I see now you have also moved into the 3d world. Not that long ago I watched videos of you struggling to import some simple 2d model lines. Now your up to full blown solid works and fusion. how things change.
md

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Hand you a broken part of your machine "this is not that easy!"

I have no problem and I don't mind learning. Its not about a 5 year old doing this. Its more about having powerful tools and knowing how to use them.
Fusion, autocad, solid works sprutcam, tormach..........whatever are just tools to me! and I learn and use the tools best I can.
Its not weather this is better or that is easy. I know better already, they are all complex if not then they are LIMITED! I don't want limits and I plan on extending all my cad and cam experience right into other machines and leverage the skills I have proven so far. We had a conversation a while back about 2d and 3d and I see now you have also moved into the 3d world. Not that long ago I watched videos of you struggling to import some simple 2d model lines. Now your up to full blown solid works and fusion. how things change.
md

I think what he's saying is, things that are hard in some CAMs (and I get the impression Sprut is harder to learn than most - that was certainly my experience with it) are easy in HXMWorks/HSMXpress/Fusion. That has certainly been my experience. I found HSMXpress had a very short, easy learning curve, and I can now do things very quickly - much quicker than with ANY other CAM I've ever used. I generated my first useful part program in HSMXpress within the first hour, and I was new to Solidworks at the same time, so that hour included learning on BOTH programs. Other CAMs I tried, I worked with them for hours, and couldn't generate a single useful program. I struggled with VisualMill for almost two weeks, and never generated a single usable program! HSMWorks made CAM quick, easy, and painless, and I now no longer dread running a new program for the first time. If it runs right in HSMWorks, it will run right on the machine.

Regards,
Ray L.

[BAMCNC.COM]

Exactly Ray, perfect post.

I moved to 3D because I had to opportunity to be sponsored, wasn't going to turn that down. However IF HSMWorks wasn't the best there is in almost every respect (even being sponsored), I would still be using Rhino for everything and be perfectly happy and make all the same parts I do now. Took me months to understand RhinoCAM (after knowing Rhino), and a matter of hours to understand HSMWorks (and being NEW to Solidworks)

That is saying something, and in the end does equal - work smarter, not harder.

I didn't mean for this to be about HSMWorks, but that Fusion deal is FAR too good of a deal to pass up at $300yr for awesome 3D CAD/CAM software.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Exactly Ray, perfect post.

I moved to 3D because I had to opportunity to be sponsored, wasn't going to turn that down. However IF HSMWorks wasn't the best there is in almost every respect (even being sponsored), I would still be using Rhino for everything and be perfectly happy and make all the same parts I do now. Took me months to understand RhinoCAM (after knowing Rhino), and a matter of hours to understand HSMWorks (and being NEW to Solidworks)

That is saying something, and in the end does equal - work smarter, not harder.

I didn't mean for this to be about HSMWorks, but that Fusion deal is FAR too good of a deal to pass up at $300yr for awesome 3D CAD/CAM software.

Yeah, I'm signing up for Fusion just because it's too cheap to pass up. I prefer Solidworks for CAD, but getting full HSMWorks for $300/year for life is well worth it, for the day when I NEED 3D CAM (which I really don't right now).

Regards,
Ray L.

[mountaindew]

Advertisement for fusion! " like car sales almost here
I have a plan and I think in my case it will work best.
If I got solid works or fusion "I almost bata tested it" for cheap or free I might use, I was not trying to say one was better then other .. more like showing people the power of all these tools.
sprutcam for me has 2 key features hard to pass up besides price and

One program to do it all!!! Mill, Lathe, Router, Plasma!

#1
Attachment 258568

#2
Attachment 258570

I set down with my experience in SPRUTCAM 9 and was able to turn a complete part on sbl15 with code in sprutcam with no lathe experience or cnc lathe. "yet"
let me know when fusion does this. I will pay "no need to sponsor and I will be happy to show its power " free of charge lol


funny!
Just learning here.
Working SMARTER is everything and the reasons they have schools and people learn and anything less is child's play!

And I have mentioned before SPRUTCAM is easy to use compared to a program like autocad and other engineering bloat that has been in development for decades and I have been a user for that long. Not a big deal. and I love the power I have to now draw, and MAKE what I draw.

CNC tools are great.
Tormach is great
Fusion is great!
I even dig my overhead trolley crane! Maybe do advertisement for hf
Get some ad revenue going here also

[carlowens]

Advertisement for fusion! " like car sales almost here

too funny. and they work on commission too don't they.

[pickled]

I even dig my overhead trolley crane! Maybe do advertisement for hf
Get some ad revenue going here also

Me thinks that Fusion would probably pay better than hf MD :-), but hey when you get famous for the trolley if you can sling me a rare 25% off coupon I'll jump on it! There is always something there that I've been eyeballing for a while.

[mountaindew]

Me thinks that Fusion would probably pay better than hf MD :-), but hey when you get famous for the trolley if you can sling me a rare 25% off coupon I'll jump on it! There is always something there that I've been eyeballing for a while.

You nailed it my man!
That's what I was hoping for from hf is a coupon . So do you think if I go on every thread that RAY or BRAD have and post about my 80$ hf winch they will sponsor me with a coupon?
Im thinking it would be worth my time and effort to save with a coupon!. What do others think? Ray Has a thread on a tool changer he is trying to build "over a year now", IMHO if the guy had a hf winch like I have it would fix all the problems he has with the tool changer. Also If he used sprutcam it would have been finished and sold to customers by now. Of course you would need to know how to DRAW the parts in 3d before you can cam them in SPRUTCAM and from what I see that would also be a problem. I say good luck with whatever cam you use and enjoy your tools I DO and my system works great.
md

[BAMCNC.COM]

If only people understood the POWER of 2.5D. I don't make anything that requires anything but 2.5D, and I'm doing alright...

Wish we could have the forum split up into...

I know everything about a HOBBY
and
Lets figure out a better/easier way to MAKE MONEY


......is bliss.... Done here guys, enjoy it!

Happy Thanksgiving. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/profil...ignore&u=80000

[carlowens]

thanks md for being one of the ones that is here to pass on your knowledge no strings attached unlike the unscrupulous few. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/profil...gnore&u=270948

[mountaindew]

Revised some settings on doc and re generated g-code.

Attachment 258826

Fo any readers or followers of this thread , these are great little projects.
This took maybe 15 min to draw complete.
Would have taken about 30 minutes to cam up on all 6 sides with code ready to run and all you do is follow directions!
Used this to test, learn and understand complex mill operations, tool paths and overall setups.
I do this to refine my methods for complex expensive projects with very expensive material and exact results!

This is what inspires me and it also inspires others I guess!
I recently received a commission for a couple prototypes . Cost plus a fee! So money is not an objective!
I can continue to refine my art and what inspires me and at same time help others see their inventions and ideas built.
Thanks very much for the confidence encouragement "you know who"!
md

[mountaindew]

If only people understood the POWER of 2.5D. I don't make anything that requires anything but 2.5D, and I'm doing alright...



Happy Thanksgiving. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/profil...ignore&u=80000

This is ok "no more sales ads for a product he has no experience with" maybe

I would never tell anyone NOT to do this or Your Wasting your time!
People have different skills! If 2d drawing and 2d cam software or whatever works for you USE it.
If 3d cad and 3d cam works for you use it!

I enjoy using my tools not telling others they are wasting there time or a 5 year old can do it!

Brad or anyone can ignore me, that's how people with that mind set work!
Years of high level education, degrees and learning working in a professional environment for 30 years has helped ME keep open an mind and want to expand my skills, art and profession.

Some simple thoughts from a simple man making his way in universe.
Hope this inspires others to not only read, understand and learn from people "not censor" also to strive to be the best at what they do.
In my case money has never been a problem and comes easy when your the best at what you do.
md

Simple thing to keep in mind!
"knowledge is compounding"
Warren Buffet,
one of the 5 wealthiest men on the planet!