[mountaindew]

My first 50 sprut cam crashes on one silly example!

Attachment 242842

The options for thread mill work ok but the tool definitions and errors generated for tool contact and holder contact are confusing.
In general I can work around or with most software and software bugs "these I find no way around"
Educated guess tells me the errors are generated in the data used to define the tool itself and the tool list database "go figure very bad design of data set" not the code for simulation or g-code compiler.
Be aware if your going to thread mill in sprut 8 get ready for crashes. Maybe if your lucky enough to get the tool or tools defined and no bad data stuck in the database fields, many crashes could be avoided.

When I get a little more of this sorted out I will post exact settings for tool definitions and mill operations so others can use and not have as many problems "I hope"

Or if anyone else has experience with this in sprut cam 8 and how to work around bugs please post your results somewhere
md

[CadRhino]

Thanks for posting MD.
Threadmillng is something I really want to with Sprut/Tormach. I am sorry to hear it is kind of a headache. Looking at Tormachs and NYCNC's video's it look like it should have worked fairly easily.
Here is a link to NYCNC's
How to Thread Mill an AR-15 Buffer Tube - Tormach PCNC 1100 - YouTube

Please post your results and keep up the investigative reports. They are very educational.
-CR

My first 50 sprut cam crashes on one silly example!

Attachment 242842

The options for thread mill work ok but the tool definitions and errors generated for tool contact and holder contact are confusing.
In general I can work around or with most software and software bugs "these I find no way around"
Educated guess tells me the errors are generated in the data used to define the tool itself and the tool list database "go figure very bad design of data set" not the code for simulation or g-code compiler.
Be aware if your going to thread mill in sprut 8 get ready for crashes. Maybe if your lucky enough to get the tool or tools defined and no bad data stuck in the database fields, many crashes could be avoided.

When I get a little more of this sorted out I will post exact settings for tool definitions and mill operations so others can use and not have as many problems "I hope"

Or if anyone else has experience with this in sprut cam 8 and how to work around bugs please post your results somewhere
md

[mountaindew]

Thanks for video links and encouragement! CR

Its easy to get some bad data in the tools definition structure.
I was trying to use a couple of different tools with different definitions and this was confusing the cam software also.
Real simple to delete that whole mess. load fresh empty template and load model and start over.
I guess I wanted to fight before so I kept with a bad setup and bad tool definitions and made it worse to the point of almost making the program unstable for future use.
The old abort, retry, ignore ..... retry and ignore were not working so abort was best and I should have started over a few days ago!
Anyway I found both interior and exterior threading operations to be straight forward after figuring out some settings and getting tool definition close.
Very cool to watch how it works and see the many possibilities for using just 1 tool to create a host of different forms.
Attachment 243086

md

[mountaindew]

More fun single point threading !


This is crazy fun and so easy compared to using a 1.00 npt tap
md

[tbaker2500]

Awesome! Being in acrylic is real easy for us to see the threads. Thanks for sharing!

[GJeff]

So in the end you used the hole machining op for your threadmilling mtndew?

[mountaindew]

Awesome! Being in acrylic is real easy for us to see the threads. Thanks for sharing!

Thanks!

So in the end you used the hole machining op for your threadmilling mtndew?

Yes in sprutcam 8 helical mill operations and settings are under hole operations menu choice.
Total of 12 types of hole operations from drilling, hole pocketing to tapping and threading.
Under help its called "The ways of the holes "
md

[GJeff]

Under help its called "The ways of the holes "
md

lol, Sprutcam translations... but when it works, it works

[Steve Seebold]

Thanks for posting MD.
Threadmillng is something I really want to with Sprut/Tormach. I am sorry to hear it is kind of a headache. Looking at Tormachs and NYCNC's video's it look like it should have worked fairly easily.
Here is a link to NYCNC's
How to Thread Mill an AR-15 Buffer Tube - Tormach PCNC 1100 - YouTube

Please post your results and keep up the investigative reports. They are very educational.
-CR

I am a GibbsCam user and in the time it took you to draw your part in Alibre and SprutCam I could have had it drawn and machined. I have never seen a CAM program that is as complicated and keystroke cumbersome as Sprutcam.

[tbaker2500]

Yup, very true. But, I think your said your seat of GibbsCam cost $18k? I'd really love an option more user friendly than Sprut, but power per $ it's hard to beat. Which is why we all put up with it. My business partner says I've shown remarkable restraint not actually throwing the computer out the window.

[mountaindew]

Yup, very true. But, I think your said your seat of GibbsCam cost $18k? I'd really love an option more user friendly than Sprut, but power per $ it's hard to beat. Which is why we all put up with it. My business partner says I've shown remarkable restraint not actually throwing the computer out the window.

Its a desk pounder now and then. I have mentioned that most complex programs can be. It has some glaring data structure bugs!
I will point out I have no CAM experience so I don't know any better.
As for 18k per seat cam software that's a little up there.
When it comes to drawing and modeling of something I will put my cad skills against steve any time. Cam skills will come in time
md

[Steve Seebold]

Yup, very true. But, I think your said your seat of GibbsCam cost $18k? I'd really love an option more user friendly than Sprut, but power per $ it's hard to beat. Which is why we all put up with it. My business partner says I've shown remarkable restraint not actually throwing the computer out the window.

Yes, my GibbsCam was $18,000 but I didn't buy it to run my Tormach. I had it in my shop and I used it to do 4 and 5 axis work there.

[mountaindew]

My first parametric design

After reading a comment above about high end software and what is possible with it. "you get what you pay for" or what I think should be possible for that cost and more!
I decided it would be good idea to learn and push what I have and see what I can refine. Start developing skills that speed both design and cam model results. "Up my game"
Not integrated but is very achievable with practice and the right process. I did these with much less effort then I was thinking for the first attempt .

Attachment 245316

Change size of tube and all the other parts linked change. With planning I setup the first model and was able to carefully manage files and import each part in the parametric design and change very little to get cam results and g-code for the larger model.

Not fully automated or without possible errors. With good planning and experience its possible to increase feeds and speeds on the design and cam process even. With refinement in how drawing is done and cam model process this could be even more straight forward.

Attachment 245318

I see the need to spend more time and sharpen my cad skills in this area, as this is totally new to me and uber powerful!

Attachment 245320

Btw the parts shown have 0.00 hand work. They come off mill and were cleaned in soap and water and assembled.

Thanks for reading and I hope this gives others ideas and inspire to make STUFF


Time to think of new things to learn.
Back to the drawing board!
md

[tbaker2500]

Awesome work, MD. Keep showing us what you're doing!
What CAD are you using?

[mountaindew]

Awesome work, MD. Keep showing us what you're doing!
What CAD are you using?

Thanks.
10 year old acad can even be taught new tricks and much more for that software.
Autodesk don't even know what all people use that software for I think! I have seen it used as a front end to find cemetery plots and even more obscure things.
Anyway

Moving focus to cam side now!
How about my own feature based cam work well kind of. It did not find the features. It did allow me to just change operations for just the changes in the model.
Generate g-code with adjusted name and your making a new part.

Attachment 245824

The different flange plates all have common design elements and changes in function requiring flexible prototype methods in cam setup.
Understanding how that model tree works and how sprut uses the data makes changing model data set easy enough again if care is taken during the design and how the data is placed in sprut.
Trying to get the most out of my cad/cam and mill tools and find new ways to learn! Show others if you think outside the box a little and be flexable many of the programs can do awesome things.
I have hdd full of designs I have done over a life time, so I have to learn to automate more steps one way or another.
All fun
md

ps: still 10 miles away from the work I see others do with very very high end cad/cam software systems.

[BAMCNC.COM]

Very nice work.

I agree with Steve though. Most jobs don't require "fancy" things, or much effort to do. Many people spend 3 hours drawing a part when I could have the part in your hand in 20min. I think there is a reverse lesson here (if that makes sense) If the part is a 2.5D part, then draw it in 2D and do the .5 D in CAM. No need to draw 3D models for alot of parts.

[Steve Seebold]

Very nice work.

I agree with Steve though. Most jobs don't require "fancy" things, or much effort to do. Many people spend 3 hours drawing a part when I could have the part in your hand in 20min. I think there is a reverse lesson here (if that makes sense) If the part is a 2.5D part, then draw it in 2D and do the .5 D in CAM. No need to draw 3D models for alot of parts.

BAM, you're absolutely right. There's no need to draw every part in 3D, but it sure is nice to be able to see what it's gonna look like before you make the first one. Then if you want to make some changes, you can do that before you waste any material.

[mountaindew]

BAM, you're absolutely right. There's no need to draw every part in 3D, but it sure is nice to be able to see what it's gonna look like before you make the first one. Then if you want to make some changes, you can do that before you waste any material.

After research and knowing what tolerance is required and dimensions for the design and of course knowing what your going to draw.

For a person that has snapped lines on paper, and computers as long as I have it took
about 5 minutes to draw in 3d EACH for those flange plates. and 10 minutes to draw the Entire assembly with screws O-rings, plates tubes whatever.
and any of the flanges I want to see..
Moving those to a cam program as I have to do then g-code for each of those .. I estimate it took about 3 hours at most to get first one including complete simulation.
Then all the others took about 20 min each max to load new 3d part model change a few things in cam and generate code and have ready for mill.
Each part shown is 1st run no code changes no broken tools and all done with multisided operations in 1 g-code file.

What can I say. and I don't think im that good at this from what I see others do.
The threads with the v8 engines come to mind "thinking they were done in gibbs cam"
and what I see Rupnow and others draw on other forums im still playing in the sandbox

We all have talents, I can draw and build huge complex things. "life long skill"
I see bam and steve have all kinds of skills I have no clue how to do like anodize or run a lathe even. he he my last lathe work was in 70's


Anyway !
Only way to prove it is to put me in a big room with people watching "like a mit seminar room" and cameras and watch me go at it
I will take the challenge any day!
md


Another big point
After you draw a part you never have to draw that again and it can be used in any future design and other cam programs
I can also print them with full professional title pages in seconds for professional Proposal "if required"

[mountaindew]

For users of sprut I did the above claim complete with fixtures in the models for each side "this is imho not easy unless you spend time doing it"
And to drive production machinists and others crazy I did these parts flipping the part 3 times
Again this is a learning process and I do this more to learn then anything.
A process be it in cad cam or at the mill is a process and can be refined

I love my pictures!
side one in the stock in vise " I like my drill ops here"
Attachment 245878

Just like the cam tree shows flip over and mount to plate and set ucs
Attachment 245880

Again following the cam tree flip the part back over to trim that last little chamfer

Attachment 245882

The finished part! complete with all tool paths



post code and take to mill and make one by following the exact pictures above.
Take finished part off vise clean in sink and your done.

I know lots of operations for 1 part
Aint it cool man!

and for sprut users
A picture of fixtures for the model and all its sides
Attachment 245884

Someone mentioned on another thread using sprut was a mind altering experience

At first glance that is or looks like a bug or something.
Run simulator with correct setting and it looks perfect
Its just an open model way to simulate from what I can tell a very wide range of tools and multi axis machines
and looking on net there are some crazy complex machines

md

[pickled]

MD I really dig how you have taken it to the next level with your Sprut experience! CAM is certainly a fun and obsessive process to refine. Models can be extremely simple or complex, but in the end it is all about the finished product being efficiently made (hopefully) while meeting or exceeding the end user's expectations. The fact that the above journey can start and end via any permutation of choices/tasks is what makes design and manufacturing of things extremely engaging to me. What seems to be an "optimal" linear choice for one process owner may be a complete "WTF are you doing" to another. I just try to shut off my judgement (minus blatant unsafe practices) and see what creative or positive thing I can learn from those that post here. Some folks here have really pushed the envelope and it is an awesome thing to see people freely share their collective experience.