[john smith 78]

They lost lawsuit to FS and have to pay FS $$$$$$$. They will have to close business very soon! Be careful with your money!

https://www.clarkcountycourts.us/Anonymous/default.aspx District Civil/Criminal Records
Case: A-12-655307-B

Attachment 211390

John

[Bec Weir]

You joined up today just to post that?
Say hello to Henry for me. Tell him we miss his presence here.....

[tejaswood]

Bec, was thinking the same thing

[Bigbird48]

Well I guess we know what happen to Genes money now. I really feel sorry for him. To take a 10K hit is real hard, maybe he should sue FS for his money, Kaspar will never give Henry a dime anyway, just because he lost doesn't mean he'll pay it.

[Greolt]

A post by a newly joined forum member has just popped up on Sawmill Creek, very much the same as the OP above.

Can't prove anything, but this sure stinks bad.

There's one company mentioned here that I will never deal with again.

[Exsecratio]

Vic Velcro over on SMC is one of the good guys, he has quite a presence on other forums and was likely just concerned for people considering buying from Hurricane. Given the public back and forth between both companies of late I wouldn't touch either of them. I get on well with John personally but that said a judgement like this may well affect his company professionally so I wouldn't take the chance.

cheers

Dave

[Greolt]

Vic Velcro over on SMC is one of the good guys,

I will take your word on that.

The level of detail in his post and the history of such actions by one of the above mentioned companies was cause for some level of legitimate suspicion.

However if Vic has no skin in the game then I have no hesitation in apologising.

Sorry Vic.

Greolt

[tejaswood]

@ Greolt...

Vic is indeed one of the good guys. He has no association with FSL... He was simply passing on information that was posed on another site...

[Greolt]

I have had personal communication with Vic and he has demonstrated to me that he is indeed "one of the good guys"

Well done Vic.

Greolt

PS: I only wish I could be as confident about the OP above.

[fixtureman1]

The thread on Sawmill Creek has been removed

[Exsecratio]

I can understand why Fix,

When you have litigious companies chucking law suits about it pays not to be in the line of fire as a forum operator with a large user base. Legal action in itself is nothing to be worried about (I have VERY good lawyers) but there is always a sense of "Piling on" when something goes public and that's what can lead to suits operators have no control over but become plaintiffs in the cross fire.

cheers

Dave

[Bigbird48]

I don't see his post on SMC

[Exsecratio]

It was deleted due to the potential for litigation if it ended up being a pile on situation.

Forums are a nightmare to administer, you either have to take no part in moderating or actively moderate to stay safe. In reality while truth is protected speech it can still lead to problems if the story starts changing or getting *modified*.

Vic posted (afaik) facts, if those later get to Chinese Whispers it can get silly very quickly.

(see UK Dr Lawrence Goddfrey Vs Demon Internet) It's all about editorial control, once you exercise it, precedent confides you must always use it. For me if something is true or posted in good faith...it stands no matter what I get asked to remove.

cheers

Dave

ps:Now you know what the email last week was about Bert

[Hurricane21]

Morning everyone,

Sorry for Henry and his team continuing to slander us to win business rather than just service their customers properly and fairly. Although our legal system is flawed and FSL/Henry won his judgement by no means he will ever collect a penny and Hurricane Lasers is definitely not going out of business. On the contrary several investors have increased their investments in the company to continue fueling our growth. We are at the ACTE show in Vegas this week, San Diego Maker Faire Saturday, NBM Los Angeles in January and ARA Las Vegas in February.

Anyone that has been in business knows what a judgement is worth. Not much.

Boss lasers is an offshoot to Hurricane Lasers and there will be many others. Henry should just grow up and realize he needs to do well by his customers rather than try to put everyone else out of business.

Thank you to everyone for their support and we look forward to a great 2014.

John

[Exsecratio]

FSL/Henry won his judgement by no means he will ever collect a penny

That's made my day

cheers

Dave

[Bigbird48]

Yea I wish it had gone the other way LOL

[Bigbird48]

Are you going to do right by Gene Sherman????

Morning everyone,

Sorry for Henry and his team continuing to slander us to win business rather than just service their customers properly and fairly. Although our legal system is flawed and FSL/Henry won his judgement by no means he will ever collect a penny and Hurricane Lasers is definitely not going out of business. On the contrary several investors have increased their investments in the company to continue fueling our growth. We are at the ACTE show in Vegas this week, San Diego Maker Faire Saturday, NBM Los Angeles in January and ARA Las Vegas in February.

Anyone that has been in business knows what a judgement is worth. Not much.

Boss lasers is an offshoot to Hurricane Lasers and there will be many others. Henry should just grow up and realize he needs to do well by his customers rather than try to put everyone else out of business.

Thank you to everyone for their support and we look forward to a great 2014.

John

[Vic Velcro]

Hi.

Just registered here a few moments ago, to comment regarding my integrity or lack-of.

I am a member on more than 100 forums (forii ?) and therefore can't have a high post-count on every site I visit. On Sawmill creek, I had ONE post prior to my thread about HURRICANE LASERS LLC and Full Spectrum. I've been a member there for almost a year, but a quiet consumer of info instead of a big-mouth.

I have no skin in the matter and no horse in the race. I am only associated with Full Spectrum as an owner of one of their units. I have no direct association with HURRICANE other than considering a purchase (after much due dilligence prior to plunking down a stack of ca$h).

During the course of my pre-purchase research (been on the fence for several months, and was within 2 weeks of actually making a buy), I had seen a lot regarding the friction between these two businesses. HURRICANE has been highly regarded by many, which was a major influence on my potential decision. When I saw the judgement directly on the official court website, I decided to hold off on making my purchase. I then posted about the judgement, so that other potential buyers might be made aware of the POSSIBILITY of delivery issues if they were to make a purchase.

At no time did I have anything negative to say about HURRICANE. I did not hype anything about Full Spectrum (in a later post on the same thread, I did mention that I am a reasonably satisfied owner of an FSL 5th gen unit - because it was brought up by somebody else). The info I provided in my SMC post was intended to help others with their own due dilligence before finalizing any arrangement, and contained a LINK directly to the court case documents on the county courthouse records official web site. I posted that for the benefit of those who might have otherwise been unaware. My original post is cached by Google, if anyone would like to see it for themselves.

At the time of this posting, the link to Google's cached page can be found by searching "vic velcro hurricane" on google, without the quotes.

The intent of that post was not to smear HURRICANE, but to help potential buyers (and owners) decide if the possible impact of the judgement to HURRICANE might be an issue of concern for those buyers.

Whether the case had any merit or whose lawyer had the bigger "pair" is irrelevant. The judgement is what it is. Judgements do impact credit ratings, and thus - might or might not cause supply-chain issues for HURRICANE which might or might not affect the delivery of units in the future. If there is a negative impact, that would matter. Knowing that it could be possible - that is a good thing for people that might otherwise miss the potential connection. I was non-specific about the exact potential but left it vague, and expect that most concerned parties would be able to draw their own conclusions as might be appropriate to their own circumstance and level of risk they are willing to bare.

I felt I was pretty clear about the POSSIBILITY of such, and never said "The sky is falling" or anything at all like that.

I appreciate that the post (at a shallow glance by any reader who didn't view my profile for join-date or check me on Google for participation on other sites) looked n00bish and vaguely similar to other posts that proceeded into mud-slinging on other occasions. However, I am not a mud-slinger. My post did not contain much of the content that can be found in other posts that did sling the mud. I am not a n00b, either.

Thank you to those who have commented on my integrity and well-meaningness. Thank you also to the member who amended their impression of me, for having drawn a hasty conclusion about me in error.

[Exsecratio]

Something I can add, I have no idea how the US credit rating system works but afaik NONE of the Chinese suppliers do accounts as such. The Chinese method of account credit is you pay when they load it on the ship if you are very lucky More usually it is payment with order before anything is actually manufactured.

I haven't seen or read or discussed anything with anybody publicly or privately thus far that would lead me to believe Hurricane is in danger of disappearing anytime soon.

It tends to be the way that getting a thousand things right is soon forgotten and 2 things wrong is never forgotten (and I have said as much to John this week) overall it pays to look at the percentages over total to get the best idea of the value of a business. Sell 10 lasers and get two complaints you should be very worried, 100 lasers and two complaints...not so much,1,000 lasers and two complaints would be less than expected for any business so things may not always be quite as clear as they seem.

Read up the story of the two angels for a better explanation

cheers

Dave

Note: Of course I have no connection with either party commercial or private past getting on with John pretty well in email communications.

[Vic Velcro]

Something I can add, I have no idea how the US credit rating system works but afaik NONE of the Chinese suppliers do accounts as such. The Chinese method of account credit is you pay when they load it on the ship if you are very lucky More usually it is payment with order before anything is actually manufactured.

Indeed, I have purchased from China, in the past. Correct, they ship AFTER they receive payment and the payment is cleared. However, suppose you want to order something from me (along with 10 other people also wanting to order). Suppose also that I must construct units from parts that I must obtain from China, prior to being able to fill your (and others') order. Suppose I don't have the funds to pay China in advance. Suppose I must take a short-term loan locally. Suppose there is a judgement against me. ** I am going to have some possible difficulty getting a local loan due to the credit mark from the judgement (just the fact a judgement exists). Now, suppose I am not paying toward the judgement. I wouuld find it impossible, or nearly impossible, to get funded due to the GLARING BLACK MARK on my credit. **

Not saying this *IS* an issue as regards HURRICANE. But there is a (currently indeterminable) potential for difficulty...

I haven't seen or read or discussed anything with anybody publicly or privately thus far that would lead me to believe Hurricane is in danger of disappearing anytime soon.

Me either. I just base my concern for the potential - solely on the problems I've seen arise for other businesses in similar circumstances.

Read up the story of the two angels for a better explanation

Of course. When doing so, consider the sources of what has been posted. Consider the age of the information. Put more weight on recent experiences vs. years old information. Consider that some information has been posted under false pretenses. Consider that some information has been posted by people who may be extremely unlucky and simply won't let their issues die - regardless of merit or disposition. Consider that some information previously posted may STILL be valid.

It's called due dilligence. Shallow research is mostly useless. In-depth research, and evaluation of the data gleaned, requires a bit more work but is much more relevant. Disregarding bias is critical to due dilligence.