[skullworks]

Ok I'm finally ready to admit my MAX32 is no longer "state of the art". In fact it is a dinosaur in danger of becoming a fossil.

People would just give me a blank stare were I to proclaim the power of the Intel 80386SX-16 when mated with a 80387 math coprocessor.

I had to move this machine from a friends property because they were moving on. At the time I bought it I did not have a suitable place for it so it went to my friends place. It was easier for all using it to just leave it there even after I moved to a property with a great shop space.

Once it was moved into my shop, (just through the door actually, the riggers were in a hurry to hit the pub and catch a game) it sat for nearly a year before I finally moved it into position with a large crowbar and lots of blood. sweat and tears. That move could be measured in hours per inch. After that experience I am fully decided on spending the required cash needed for proper machine moving skates and toe jacks the next time a move is required.

Next I had to wire up the CNC rated RPC, then wire the machine to it once I had proven I had good stable and balanced 3 phase and identified the ghost leg. Things were on a roll now, until I noticed I didn't have the PC side key... but that is a different thread. Getting past that I finally flipped the switch and.... no boot.

The Rayovac 844 extenal PC battery was as dead as the dinosaurs, the CMOS setup config was lost so it could not read the HDD without setting the C_H_S numbers and installed mem config.

I have since obtained a 4x AAA battery box with switch and leads which I soldiered the connector from the expired Rayovac to. I measured an open circuit voltage of 6.6V with 4 batts and the Rayovac 844 was a 4.5V unit so I will make a dummy batt so that there are only 3 batts in the box providing power. I have not hooked this up yet, as I have not had a chance to fab the dummy batt.

This system has a Seagate ST3145A which lists a capacity of 130.6MB I also have a ST3144A which has the same C-H-S and final capacity. Is there a utility that can make a complete drive clone so that I have a ready to go HDD? should the original die - remember these parts are 20+ years old and those cabinets get really hot even with all the fans.

Part of why I worry is that I have the box the Max32 upgrade came in, complete with the dust jackets for the floppies, but there is no actual media so if this dies I have a blue boat anchor and no boat.

What are other users using to replace the HDD - I know its a sticky problem because its early IDE-AT before the hardware actually communicated the drive parameters ( pre-Plug & pray ) and you have the 386 BIOS limit of 504MB.

I would like to try a IDE compact Flash adaptor with a 512Mb card - but I'm at a loss as to how to clone the functional HDD into the CF. Going to CF would be nice as I could pull the card and make a dupe as needed to have a complete system backup complete with the machines entire loaded program library.

From messages on the screen it appears the maximum memory the board can handle is 8mb - can this be confirmed because I have 8 4mb chips I could use if its supported. Right now it looks like I have 4mb installed.

Future projects will include trying to come up with a functional way to replace the CRT's with LCD's and this is targeted for the MaxII and Max32, and maybe even Max-3 but I have not laid eyes on that hardware and don't know of a machine I could test on for Max-3.

[Darko D.]

Hi,

last week i had same project at my customer with flash HDD. For cloning, i use NortonGhost ( old version, portable - 5mb, i can send it to you ) but you will have problems if you wanna to clone old hdd and inst, all flash instead. When you setup BIOS, old hdd is setup to right amount of space ( i dont know you software version but usually is number of cylinders 3303, heads 16 and sectors 63 ) and that define about 1.720mb used for Ultimax. And now, if you install flash Hurco says he works on auto which means that size is no defined by Bios and i had problems there. After few tries, i had to reinstall software which was easy for me because machine had ultimax diskettes.
So, if you need BIOS configuration, ultimax bootable disks or NortonGhost, let me know.

For memory, i think when you set up BIOS you will be able to use all present memory.

Darko

[bloke]

The largest HDD size you can go to is 400mb.
If you have the programmable BIOS PROMs, you'll need to set them as:
Cylinders 1024
Heads 16
Wpcom 65535
Lzone 0
Sectors 50

Does your machine have DSP or dual axis cards?
Making up a new HDD is a piece of cake for those machines. The HDD must have a maximum capacity of 2gb. There is a program out there called MHDD that I have heard of being used to limit the size of much bigger drives to the 2gb limit.

[skullworks]

The machine is a 1990 that came with MaxII but was upgraded to Max32 shortly thereafter. It has the dual axis cards, and Voltac board for spindle speed.

Max32 DA Upgrade v1,61 P/N 007-4121-002
S/N M32A0001020A
KDB-900101G

1st off - is 4xAAA batts safe for the CMOS backup battery or should I rig it with 3+ 1 dummy?

2nd Once the machine boots again my next goal is to clone the HDD so I have a backup.

3rd is to upgrade to a larger / newer HDD with the max capacity useable.

I think I have some WD Cavier 1.6 and 1.7 gb Cavier

[skullworks]

Darko - I'll take what every soft tools you can send - I have a 2nd HDD with the same CHS and total size which covers my backup concerns if I can get them to clone.

Moving to flash is just looking forward since getting HDD's that would work with this system is getting extremely difficult. Between moving to flash and maybe screen mods I'm praying I can keep it running another 10 years.

I live in an region of Colorado that is known to be in the top 10 locations for lightening strikes in the US. I worry.

[skullworks]

Update: I put the CPU board and HDD board back in the card rack and hooked everything up. The CMOS batt was off.

This time when I powered up the machine I only got a flashing cursor on the left text screen. It never got to the area asking for HDD setup. There is a green and yellow rectangular LED on the top left of the MAX32 board there was an ultra faint/dim glow from the green LED and notihing from the yellow.

Before I was worried about a dead CMOS batt, now I'm thinking the board its self is failing. I'm loosing faith here. IDEAS?

[skullworks]

Wow - I can't believe I have been side tracked for almost a year now. ( STILL NEEDED HELP! ) :drowning:

But repairs to the shop (all new roofing) to fix storm damage, and buying 2 lathes plus going under the knife for a bad gall bladder have kept me from ironing this out.

I fired up the CNC rated phase converter and checked all the voltages, at least its still in tip top condition. Then threw the cabinet switch on the Hurco. I get fans, and a corner cursor on the text screen.

No KYB test, in fact there does not appear to be any power reaching the console. I'm beginning to wonder if the power supply is providing all the needed voltages at the right level. This machine endured a few hard freezes before it was moved to my shop.

[skullworks]

Well here is my Post 4th of July long weekend update.

I replaced the Deltron power supply and the system still does not boot - just get a flashing cursor on the left screen in the lower left corner. So I will be putting my pws back and return the other unit from the generous person who loaned it to me for this test.

Good news is after nearly a full day of digging through the dino wares I found a good old 486DX2 that I could hook the HDD up to and copy off the important stuff. This has been done partly - now I have to get it off a Win95 PC with no USB or ethernet,

I'm running out of ideas guys, what next?

[cwalker1960]

Well here is my Post 4th of July long weekend update.

I replaced the Deltron power supply and the system still does not boot - just get a flashing cursor on the left screen in the lower left corner. So I will be putting my pws back and return the other unit from the generous person who loaned it to me for this test.

Good news is after nearly a full day of digging through the dino wares I found a good old 486DX2 that I could hook the HDD up to and copy off the important stuff. This has been done partly - now I have to get it off a Win95 PC with no USB or ethernet,

I'm running out of ideas guys, what next?

Did you get the hurco going? I'm in a similar situation and drowning too. I have a 1990 bmc that was upgraded to max32 . I have the 3 max 32 ver.1.54 disks and one configuration disk in my folder. . The hard drive was completely erased when I got the machine , didn't even have any partitions set up on it.. The only time I have ever gotten past the blinking cursor on the left screen is when I put the first disk in the floppy when starting the machine. then I got a "loading exec 1" when it calls for disk 2 i got a" disk subsystem failed to initialize" I never seen a setup screen or any lights at all on the control console come on .. and I've had all the boards out of the cabinet and haven't seen anything that resembles a battery. ,I have followed the hard drive setup to the letter by putting it in an old computer but it's still not recognized as best I can tell. My machine does have the single DSP motion controller , not the 2 dual axis boards..
Could really use some advice and help

[mprotec]

first and foremost get the motherboard running first in cmos or bios mode...
1. attach a keyboard to the controller inside the black box.
2. power on and press the esc or delete key...
3. once inside go to hard disk tab and try to get it to recognise yr hard disk...
4. if fine so far... f10 meaning save and exit... to reboot you must kill the power and on it again..

If it doesn't boot... then use a bootable floppy and check the contents of your hd...

If confirmed blank... then refer to previous post by bloke regarding how to configure a useable hard disk..

Do post back with pics esp the controls...

hope my two cents helped....

[cwalker1960]

first and foremost get the motherboard running first in cmos or bios mode...
1. attach a keyboard to the controller inside the black box.
2. power on and press the esc or delete key...
3. once inside go to hard disk tab and try to get it to recognise yr hard disk...
4. if fine so far... f10 meaning save and exit... to reboot you must kill the power and on it again..

If it doesn't boot... then use a bootable floppy and check the contents of your hd...

If confirmed blank... then refer to previous post by bloke regarding how to configure a useable hard disk..

Do post back with pics esp the controls...

hope my two cents helped....

bootable floppy? when I put the hurco floppy in it brings up the first screen saying loading exec ,, when it calls for the second floppy it gives an error , i don't remember what now.
I have seen no way to attach a keyboard
I have found no way to get into the bios
this is a 1990 , (old blue machine,leadwell iron),, apparently upgraded to max32,,
I have pretty much abandoned the idea of ever getting the hurco controller to work again ,,and would welcome any advice regarding a retrofit , preferably with linuxcnc,

[cwalker1960]

Attachment 291322Attachment 291324

[mprotec]

Hi walker,

1. Bootable floppy means any msdos bootable floppy disk... you can download or mk one from any windows pc.
2. you can attach a keyboard to the console or the first picture.. i will post a pic of my connection later for your ref... but i am away now!
3. you are only showing the motherboard... perhaps you could show us the controller where you took out the motherboard!

The good news is .... if you have the ISA system then you should be having less pain than what i went through...lol

BTW, what model is your iron?


mike

[cwalker1960]

Hi walker,

1. Bootable floppy means any msdos bootable floppy disk... you can download or mk one from any windows pc.
2. you can attach a keyboard to the console or the first picture.. i will post a pic of my connection later for your ref... but i am away now!
3. you are only showing the motherboard... perhaps you could show us the controller where you took out the motherboard!

The good news is .... if you have the ISA system then you should be having less pain than what i went through...lol

BTW, what model is your iron?


mike

I have dos boot disks but I never tried one in the machine,,
I have seen nowhere on the outside or the inside of the console to connect a keyboard
enclosing photos of the back plane, personality board and motion controller
my machine uses the single DSP motion controller not the 2 separate dual axis boards
i'll get the serial # off it next time I'm at the shop , it is a bmc 30 supposedly 1990 model from other photos i have seen and from reading other posts it appears to be leadwell iron

[cwalker1960]

also , i have read about the darlington battery and other cmos batteries on the main board and I have not seen anything that looks like a battery to me and I am familiar with what the normal darlington battery looks like.

[cwalker1960]

I must confess that I have now removed all of the hurco control system .. I have been messing with it off and on for almost 6 months now and have tried everything I knew to do and everything anyone would tell me to do with absolutely zero success .. I didn't cut any cables removing the hurco computer and related control boards by some off wall the chance i wanted to be able to put it back ,, but I am strongly leaning towards a full conversion ,,probably using linux cnc and mesa cards..
I have used linuxcnc before on a little cnc router table that I built but this will be magnitudes more difficult for me,, I would have liked nothing more to get the hurco up and running on it's own controls but so far it hasn't seemed possible..I have neither the time, money, knowledge or patience for the full conversion so it is likely to be a long term project .. hopefully I'll make it run before i get tired of looking at it taking up space in my shop.. I feel pretty confident that I can make all three axis and the spindle work again but I have serious reservations as to whether the auto tool changer ever will..

[mprotec]

whoa!...hold your horse!

Don't worry... you are just going thru a learning period like many of us hurco owner had...

over the years! of meddling with a hurt machine i have learned it the hard way... don't worry..

Getting the monster alive is like riding a horse...Dont just jump onto it like John wayne in the movies..
it just won't work...

First let me share my two cents (bloke! correct me where i am wrong)....

hurcos are the very early pc based controlled cnc machines....see PC BASED! so with whatever knowledge you have on computers should help!
and the models we are meddling with are early dos based computers...

Then you have the intermediary like relay boards, Dsp for calculations for accurate movements, etc,

Third is the power zone like your servos which is the same like my two bmc20lr...

Fourth is the metal body or mechanical portion..


Ok... what we will be doing or looking into will be the first zone... yup, the controller and software by hurco which is the biggest culprit of all,
as you can see it in every machine forum regarding hurco... but what can you expect of a computer after 20 years...it has done its job well.


Since you have taken all the boards out..its ok! you only need the motherboard and hard disk board back in..

Turn off all the power supplies to your servos and spindle drives (locate the mmcbs)

Then work with the motherboard with all the attachment back on...Dont worry about the battery...not at this stage..
Treat it like a dos system pc with cmos battery dead...
Once i give you the pic to attach the keyboard... we can go into bios and we will go from there!

Remember its a horse... get to know it first before mounting on it or you will get kicked off!

now spend some time to understand the wires and power to all the big switches....
once i get you the pic for attaching the keyboard... you must know what to switch on or off....

mike
ps. I too, once wanted to retrofit it after many months of frustration...but i got thru finally and appreciate ultimax3 until today....

[cwalker1960]

when i say removed the hurco controls , i mean as it's all sitting in the shop floor right now , again I didn't cut any wires and i could easily put it back in .. i had already isolated the power going to the computer alone and was running it on house 220 single phase to prevent having to start up the RPC every time i had an idea to work on it some more..
just to mention a few other things, i think i recall reading (done so much it's hard to remember) is that the personality board needs to be in the circuit to bring the second screen up on my machine, and second (don't fully remember the post, but I think Bloke may have said it) something about holding the clear key (maybe ?) during boot should bring up the bios settings , and the guy said that it did not on his machine and then the response was something to the effect that the bios was not accessible on that machine and i remember it sounding a lot like mine ,, BTW I have tried holding that key down(whichever key it was in that post ) and it did nothing for me either.
others were telling me that there should be an old AT port on the outside of the console to connect a keyboard to ,, not there on this one,, someone had mentioned a way to attach a keyboard at the computer through one of the ports on the motherboard and was sending the inquirer a wiring scheme to do so but it was sent in a private message which i never seen or inquired further about as it was a very old post .
even had one person tell me if the hard drive went out on this particular machine it was all but over,, I found that difficult to swallow ,, surely a bad hard drive doesn't warrant scraping what was once a high dollar machine..
sorry for all the rambling , i've just done a lot of searching and reading for just about every post i could find on the web about the old hurcos and after a while it all starts to run together
I really appreciate the hand holding here,, I had one other fellow on here quite a while back trying to guide me through till he seen pics of my boards and said it was older than anything he had worked on and was out of ideas for me.. I would still like to get the hurco controls back up as it would be much easier to just put it back in than doing the retro fit. i don't know why i never thought of throwing a dos floppy in it and seeing if it would boot up but I will bench wire everything up and give that a go while waiting on further instruction from you ,,
thanks again ,
Clint

[mprotec]

/Users/mprotec/Pictures/iPhoto Library/Masters/2015/09/03/20150903-221420/IMG_0833.JPG
/Users/mprotec/Pictures/iPhoto Library/Masters/2015/09/03/20150903-221420/IMG_0834.JPG
/Users/mprotec/Pictures/iPhoto Library/Masters/2015/09/03/20150903-221420/IMG_0835.JPG

[mprotec]

yikes!
how do i post photos here?.... let me see...mmmmmAttachment 291416Attachment 291414Attachment 291412Attachment 291418Attachment 291420Attachment 291422[ATTACH=CONFIG]291424