[FuriousGeorge]

I needed to purchase some some specialty tapered End Mills from Harvey Tool and was considering trying out some of there TiB_2 variable helix End Mills in 1/8" and 1/4" diameters when I place my order. At 26 and 33 bucks respectively, I'm wondering if their performance could possibly justify the additional cost? Especially considering the fact that the manufacturer's recommended SFM (1400) is WAY faster than a Tormach can hope to achieve. For the 1/8th EM, a tormach maxes out at 166 SFM, which seems like it might just rub and destroy the cutting edges. I'd be using them for both finishing and slotting in some small aluminum pieces.

Has anyone tired out any of these "fancy" End Mills? What would the effect of running an End Mill at a 10th of the manufacture's SFM be?

[zero_divide]

Variable helix will help combat vibrations and chatter.
TiB coating is ideal for minimum lubrication situations.
Running at lower than recommended SFM will only reduce your chances of developing built up edge and snapping your cutter. As long as chipload is the same you are fine. Avoid deep slotting without flood coolant.

[Just Me]

I needed to purchase some some specialty tapered End Mills from Harvey Tool .... At 26 and 33 bucks respectively, I'm wondering if their performance could possibly justify the additional cost?

What you're paying for in this case is the Taper...Most cases coated end mills in a Tormach is not worth the extra money... as you point out the SFM can not be reached...without the SFM the coating is just fluff...

[FuriousGeorge]

I was referring to straight end mills.

[BAMCNC.COM]

Save expensive endmills for finishing. Load up your cart at Shars and find what you like and how to use the endmill. Then and only then pay more for endmills if you think you need to.

I have some shars doubled ended endmills that last longer than LakeShoreCarbide in Titanium.

[Just Me]

A .020 corner raduis on a tool will impove cutter life more than an expensive mill or coating...
Think about...what part of the tool breaks down first and gives you a bad finish and cutter chatter...The corner of the tool...So unless you need a square corner...use a .020 corner raduis mill

[quapman]

Where do I shop for Shars?

[mike sr1]

Where do I shop for Shars?

shars.com

this is their website, I order from them through it.

[Just Me]

Shars.com and lakeshore rebrand cutting tool...they don't make them...
$46.00 for a 1/2 2 flute carbide drill/mill is no cheaper than buying OSG, Data Flute, Harvey or any mfg...

[quapman]

Took a quick look and other than a few items on sale, I see no savings compared to MSC, especially if you use the discount codes.

[LeeWay]

I'm curious as to why you buy from MSC rather than Enco. I just looked up this.

Enco - Guaranteed Lowest Prices on Machinery, Tools and Shop Supplies

Square End Mills - End Mills | MSCDirect.com

Enco often has sale prices and that's about $10.00 there.
I have done this in the past and looked at both catalogs often.
Enco is consistently lower priced.

Customer loyalty may also factor in, but I do buy quite a bit from Enco. Not so much MSC.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

MSC *used* to have good deals at time. Seems like the last few years, all their sales require spending $350 to get a decent discount. Their everyday prices are considerably higher than Enco the vast majority of the time. Shars is good, but their prices are also typically higher than Enco for most thing.

Whatever you do, but good, name-brand, usually Made-in-USA tools, and avoid the cheap stuff like the plague - it's NOT worth the money. Hertel is my "favorite" brand at Enco now that they've stopped carrying Putnam and Greenfield.

Regards,
Ray L.

[Just Me]

Enco and MSC are the same company...MSC ships that day...Enco takes a week to ship...The only time I buy from MSC is when I intend on paying them 45-60 days...sometimes 120 days...
I use a Industrail Tool Suppy out of Lowel Mass...They ship to me that day and I have the tools the next day...Their price has alway been 10-20% less than MSC
Industrial Tool Supply - We make it happen!

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Enco and MSC are the same company...MSC ships that day...Enco takes a week to ship...

On what are you basing that statement? It makes no sense to me, so I find it very hard to believe, especially since MSC is located in New York, and Enco is located in Nevada...

Regards,
Ray L.

[Gerry Sweetland]

On what are you basing that statement? It makes no sense to me, so I find it very hard to believe, especially since MSC is located in New York, and Enco is located in Nevada...

Regards,
Ray L.

Sorry Ray but it looks like it is true. I didn't believe it until I did a quick Google found that the owners of MSC acquired ENCO way back in 96 or there about.

I am surprised too, I have been buying most of the cutting tools I have from ENCO. Specifically Hertel. Thought it was weird too that as soon as I was regularly ordering from ENCO I started getting ENCO like catalogs from MSC in the mail and as far I know I never requested them!

Gerry

[quapman]

I usually get a 30% discount from MSC through my work and we have a sales rep who's pretty good. I have no problem buying from other sources.

Interesting info about MSC and Enco. I always considered Enco to be cheap, low quality import stuff, but haven't dealt with them since the 90's. Will revisit the topic.

In fact, now that I think about it, I used to buy a lot from Ecko Tool in Buffalo when I lived in upstate, NY. I must investigate and see if they're still around!

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Sorry Ray but it looks like it is true. I didn't believe it until I did a quick Google found that the owners of MSC acquired ENCO way back in 96 or there about.

I am surprised too, I have been buying most of the cutting tools I have from ENCO. Specifically Hertel. Thought it was weird too that as soon as I was regularly ordering from ENCO I started getting ENCO like catalogs from MSC in the mail and as far I know I never requested them!

Gerry

Gerry,

Well, the same owners owning both doesn't make it "the same company". They could certainly still be completely separate, and totally unrelated, business entities, even if Enco is "owned" by MSC. I didn't realize even that relationship existed. Where did you learn that? In Googling, I see a lot of speculation about the relationship, but nothing I'd consider factual evidence.

Regards,
Ray L.

[LeeWay]

I have known that may be the case and kinda why I brought it up. I get both catalogs on the same day usually and they are very close to the same thing layoutwise. It makes it really easy to check the different pricing on some of the same items.

I had heard that there were two brothers or something, each one heading a company, but I heard or read that so long ago that I might even be thinking of two other companies.

[rlockwood]

Hosting Info for Website: use-enco.com #139,285 position in world sites rating
IP Address: 12.40.224.110
IP Location: USA
Resolve Host: 12.40.224.110
Hosting Company / IP Owner: Msc Industrial Supply
Owner IP Range: 12.40.224.64 - 12.40.224.127
Owner Address: 75 Maxess Road, Melville, NY, 11747, US

If nothing else, the fact that their IP's are from the same block (12.40.224.100 and 12.40.224.110) should be a dead giveaway. This is an out of date registration, but at some time MSC Ind. was listed as the hosting company/ip owner. use-enco.com still references a DNS server with "MSC" in it, but I suppose that could just be shorthand for Miscellaneous. There's enough coincidences for me to say its borderline unreasonable to assume anything other than that there's a strong link. Not entirely sure why it's relevant though, their prices aren't the same, and they're setup to serve two different industries.

As for cutting tools and price, I find price is often a terrible indicator of quality. I've gotten great tools at great prices, and terrible tools at terrible prices. I believe there are only a (actually less than) handful of micro-grain carbide suppliers. Therefore, as long as the manufacturer is capable of holding acceptable tolerance on their grind angles, and you're comparing tooling with similar grinds, there's not alot of variation. Coatings are largely used to increase potential SFM limits, so it's important to know where your capability occurs to exceed those limits, and then decide if its worth the extra cost to take advantage of. While coatings may have some effect below those limits, its mostly a diminishing returns situation-- sometimes they can help when flood coolant isn't available, etc. IMO, at that point its a band-aid more than a fix.

I've found that increased tooling costs really only pay off in a genuine production environment. Further though, i'd suggest starting with cheaper tooling. Its incredibly likely for a beginner to kill their tools via programming errors long before the tool wears out.

[LeeWay]

Normally I would agree that a cheaper price means lower quality, but in this case as it often is with the two sites mentioned, they are identical.

Manufacturer Part Number: 5731400