[diyengineer]

Visit Seattle or Portland. They have a ton of vegan doughnuts, soo good!!!!! haha

Diyengineer,

Been making doughnuts for several generations and never baked a doughnut (Vegan) but we aim to please.
Maybe you would like a few cupcakes. Mr G might want a fruitcake.

JoeyB

[wrljet]

My G0704 ways look just like in the pictures of the original post. It was made 7/2013.
As stated in OP, mine are rougher than some files I own. Easily felt with a fingernail,
although these teeth don't feel sharp.

The dovetail parts are much more smoothly finished.

Bill

[library]

I was all worried about mine because I can see the tooling marks too. I ran my fingernail over them and they are certainly not like a file. My nail doesn't catch at all. They aren't smooth like glass but certainly not rough. It seems the X and Y surfaces on the saddle are ground and scraped because I can see the difference. There are no tooling marks and just the scraping marks. My mill was made 12/13. I'm happy with it.

[Dingus]

I saw this warning before ordering a G0704. I considered the PM25 as suggested, but wanted to buy all of Hoss's plans and didn't want to worry about too many differences between the PM25 and G0704 because I have almost no experience or skills other than a background in electrical engineering. I decided to order the G0704 and make sure it didn't have this problem before fully unpacking it.

When I got the mill I only took off the top and the side of the crate so I could inspect it and all the ways seemed fine with the expected tooling marks. Somehow though, I missed the problem on the back corner of the y-axis I think because it was under the ways cover and an extra thick layer of grease and toward the corner of the crate that was hard to get to.

Imagine my disappointment when I got it fully unpacked, took off the spindle head and z column off and finally took the ways cover off and cleaned it to find just one corner of my y axis ways to be the texture of a file. I think mine is even worse that the OP.

I cleaned the ways and tried to show the difference between the left and right side of the ways in the pictures below. I finished moving it to the basement because it was already half disassembled. When it was assembled everything seemed tight and travel was smooth with no binding. I am worried that this will wear unevenly pretty quickly though and I will have something fairly unusable with a low resell value.

So, I am considering my options in this order:

1) Call Grizzly and RMA the base and table, but I don't know if they will let me and more importantly, I don't know what it will take to get the z-column properly mated to the new base and table.

2) Lapping, but will that back corner still wear quicker?

3) Shipping back the whole mill and getting another G0704 or getting the PM25 instead.

4) Live with it and keep an eye on it until it becomes a problem and then fix it somehow.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Here are the pictures and video.

The nail file test video. Make sure you have the sound turned up to hear the difference.
http://<a href="http://www.youtube.c... - YouTube</a>

Note the difference in finish between the top left and the right:
Attachment 256966

Note no difference in finish between bottom left and right.
Attachment 256968

Close up of problem.
Attachment 256970

Close up comparison to the other side not a problem?
Attachment 256972

One final picture of the back of the base where there seems to be a flaw in the casting.
Attachment 256974

Any and all input is appreciated. Thanks..

[wrljet]

Grizzly will probably tell you the file-like surface is intentional to hold oil.
I won't be buying anything more from them.

[LeeWay]

Is Grizzly using HF mills to machine those parts?

Sorry guys. I haven't had any issues with Grizzly. My stuff has all been as expected or better. I hope you guys get it all sorted out.

[alan_3301]

Forgive me if I am wrong, but the surface in question does not actually make contact with anything right?

[alan_3301]

Looks like I am probably wrong looking at a few pictures. That sucks they left it like that.

[bjorn toulouse]

.............they have decided to terminate our business arrangement and even if I try and buy another machine they won't sell it to me!

IMO, Grizzly has done you a HUGE favor!!


Rex

[Dingus]

Forgive me if I am wrong, but the surface in question does not actually make contact with anything right?

That surface does make contact.

I was leaning towards trying to return just the base / table because I thought Grizzly sold that part as a complete assembly:

Grizzly.com

I figured that would be the easiest in my situation since I have already disassembled it, but now I am not sure if part number P0704BOX2 is the stand and not the base table.

I am wondering if I could just RMA reference number 076 part number P0704076, but how well would a different saddle mate up with it? Are they machined in pairs at the factory? Are they just thrown together anyway?

Im going to call Grizzly tomorrow and see how well they are able to help me out. But, I would really like to get some input from experienced folks in this forum before I do that.

Can anyone comment on any of my options specifically or give me another?

1. RMA a part of the machine
2. Lap the ways
3. Return / replace the whole mill
4. Live with it

I would also consider hand scraping the ways using the mating surfaces to spot (not a straight edge), but is it even possible to scrape a surface that bad?

Any and all help is much appreciated.

[hoss2006]

That surface does make contact.

I was leaning towards trying to return just the base / table because I thought Grizzly sold that part as a complete assembly:

Grizzly.com

I figured that would be the easiest in my situation since I have already disassembled it, but now I am not sure if part number P0704BOX2 is the stand and not the base table.

I am wondering if I could just RMA reference number 076 part number P0704076, but how well would a different saddle mate up with it? Are they machined in pairs at the factory? Are they just thrown together anyway?

Im going to call Grizzly tomorrow and see how well they are able to help me out. But, I would really like to get some input from experienced folks in this forum before I do that.

Can anyone comment on any of my options specifically or give me another?

1. RMA a part of the machine
2. Lap the ways
3. Return / replace the whole mill
4. Live with it

I would also consider hand scraping the ways using the mating surfaces to spot (not a straight edge), but is it even possible to scrape a surface that bad?

Any and all help is much appreciated.

1st see what grizzly says, you have a one year warranty, they'd likely replace the whole machine.
If you keep it, scraping is an option but would take a LOT to get the surface smooth and keep the geometry with the other surfaces correct.
Moglice could be the answer to fill the rough surface and not have to scrape everything.
Devitt Machinery Company | Devitt Machinery Company
Hoss

[Fastest1]

I would think the parts are mated. Or have had hand fitting to make them more compatible together.

Grizzly will most likely replace the entire mill.

[wrljet]

Grizzly told me to pound sand.

[Dingus]

1st see what grizzly says, you have a one year warranty, they'd likely replace the whole machine.
If you keep it, scraping is an option but would take a LOT to get the surface smooth and keep the geometry with the other surfaces correct.
Moglice could be the answer to fill the rough surface and not have to scrape everything.
Devitt Machinery Company | Devitt Machinery Company
Hoss

Thanks for the alternative Hoss.

If Grizzly doesn't give me a choice other than to return the mill for a refund, do you know how well your phase 1 cnc plans work with a PM25?

Im thinking it may not be too hard at all with maybe a couple holes being in a different place or maybe needing more or less spacing on the leadscrew / motor mating.

I would think the parts are mated. Or have had hand fitting to make them more compatible together.

Grizzly will most likely replace the entire mill.

Hey thanks for helping to confirm that suspicion. It makes sense and better prepares me for the conversation with Grizzly tomorrow.

Grizzly told me to pound sand.

Sorry to hear that. I would be interested in more specifics if you don't mind sharing. Did they refuse to replace it or to give you a refund? What did you do with the mill in the end live with it? If so how has machine worked and has this problem affected operation or maintenance do you think?

I hope Grizzly doesn't take a hard-line with me. I hate to do it, but have done credit card charge-backs in the past as a last resort. I just don't want to drag this out because I am working on a venture that I need a CNC mill for.

[Fastest1]

Grizzly has been fair to most all of us when problems have risen. They are a respected vendor for the Chinese machines. Keep us posted of your results. Having a calm demeanor does help.

[Dingus]

After reading the Grizzly terms and conditions again I opted to email pictures and video I took of the problem to [email protected] yesterday so they could clearly see there is a defect and that Im not talking about the type of tooling marks they might say are normal to hold oil. I received the following message back today:

Dear Dingus,

Thank you for your email dated November 17, 2014.

We are sorry to hear about the problem you are experiencing. We have created a tracking file we call an “activity” to look into this matter for you and have assigned it activity #XXXXX. A representative will contact you with more information in one to two business days.

Please do not hesitate to contact us with any questions. You are a valued customer and it is our pleasure to serve you.

In the meantime I will order the rest of the parts I need for a conversion and look for alternative machines / vendors in case this deal goes south. I will call QMT tomorrow and see if they have anything in stock.

[Fastest1]

Quit looking for alternatives, Grizzly will make it right.

[wizard]

Quit looking for alternatives, Grizzly will make it right.

It is the fact that they have to make this right that is the problem. Grizzles quality controls have taken a dive or at least they have at the factories supplying this machine. I've bought a few machines from Grizzley, some have been excellent and others not so good. The problem is we are paying Grizzley good/better money to supposedly supply us with a higher quality product.

Apparently they do get a higher quality product but it depends upon which plant the item is made in. Sadly what we need is a web site that grades individual machines so that buyers can be aware of what are the more problematic machines. Right now it is a bit of a crap shoot to buy from Grizzley unless you frequent forums like this.

[hoss2006]

It is the fact that they have to make this right that is the problem. Grizzles quality controls have taken a dive or at least they have at the factories supplying this machine. I've bought a few machines from Grizzley, some have been excellent and others not so good. The problem is we are paying Grizzley good/better money to supposedly supply us with a higher quality product.

Apparently they do get a higher quality product but it depends upon which plant the item is made in. Sadly what we need is a web site that grades individual machines so that buyers can be aware of what are the more problematic machines. Right now it is a bit of a crap shoot to buy from Grizzley unless you frequent forums like this.

Grizzly has the lowest price out there for these bf20 mills so you are NOT paying grizzly better money to expect better quality than anyone else.
Hoss

[Dingus]

I was contacted Grizzly again via email this morning. Here's what the e-mail said:

Dear Dingus,
Thank you for your email dated November 17, 2014.

I am sorry to hear that your G0704 Mill/Drill appears to be defective. While the ridges may be heavy in the one section of the ways, the part may not be defective. Can you provide a flatness measurement from front to back on the way in question? Is the top of the way, without placing a fingernail down into the ridges, smooth?

Once we have more information, we can assist you further. You are a valued customer, and we look forward to hearing from you soon.
Sincerely,
Employee
Technical Service
Grizzly Industrial, Inc.
EN #XXX

and my response

Employee,

The top of the way under consideration is not smooth to the touch. I even inspected those ridges with an eye loupe looking for flatness on the top of the ridges but only saw rough sharp unfinished peaks over most of the area under discussion. I can try to get some magnified pictures for you.

I can take that flatness measurement for you as well. Do you have more specific instruction for how you want me to do that though? I only have a magnetic base and dial indicator that measures 1000ths at the moment. I have other measuring equipment on order.

Let me know and I will send some magnified pictures to you later this afternoon.

//Dingus

Im getting ready to send half a dozen or so magnified photos I took which range from:

Smooth on one end:
Attachment 257616

To rougher and rougher:
Attachment 257618

Im going to wait for Grizzly's instruction on how they want me to take a flatness measurement, but here are some more pictures and video of what I did for that earlier this evening:

First a picture of my setup:
Attachment 257626

Down the middle of the way:
Beginning
Attachment 257628

End about +0.0015"
Attachment 257630

And the video. You can sort of see how the elevation jumps up about 0005" right at the ridge.



Down the inner edge of the way:
Beginning
Attachment 257632

End about +0.001"
Attachment 257634

And the video.
G0704 Ways Inner Edge Flatness - YouTube
Occasionally in the video some of the ridges seem to cause the indicator to jump up +0.002"

Thoughts anyone? Proper way to measure flatness perhaps?