[BTP]

Ahh I love industrial automation. Nice work man.

[DaQue]

I don't know why someone thumbs down your video but you could put anything up there and get a thumbs down. If you can learn to just ignore them you will sleep better. Nice video. I wonder how many tools an average job takes? It seems like the few people I follow with ATCs have maybe 50 odd tools in holders. To someone just looking at getting into this it sure seems like a dozen would do most of everything just maybe with more passes. Looking forward to seeing it up and running. I hope the end product will be available at a affordable price point. And yourcreturn is worth the time and effort too.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[SCzEngrgGroup]

I don't know why someone thumbs down your video but you could put anything up there and get a thumbs down. If you can learn to just ignore them you will sleep better. Nice video. I wonder how many tools an average job takes? It seems like the few people I follow with ATCs have maybe 50 odd tools in holders. To someone just looking at getting into this it sure seems like a dozen would do most of everything just maybe with more passes. Looking forward to seeing it up and running. I hope the end product will be available at a affordable price point. And yourcreturn is worth the time and effort too.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

I know most of my jobs are under a dozen tools, but there are probably 10-15 tools most of which get used very often, so it would be convenient if those could just live in the ATC all the time. Plus, with an ATC I would do the CAM so I used more tools, since toolchanges would be no hassle. I would I agree for the average user, 12 should be more than plenty. I would not expect a lot of people to go for the 18- or 24-tool options.

Regards,
Ray L.

[Tkamsker]

Hi I think you did a great Job so thumbs up and i can judge because i retrofit an Bridgeport 412 and you did it from ground up well done and Even haters are an achievement ...

[kvom]

The question of # of tools is interesting. Most single jobs require fewer than 12. Of the parts I've made on the Novakon, the greatest number needed was 9 tool changes. Where people want more than that is when they have multiple jobs that need a different set of tools, but for this type of mill I think that swapping out holders isn't that big an issue.

Machines that need vast numbers of tools are the horizontal milling machines that use pallets and have programs for many different parts. There they may hold 200 or more tools ready for use. They also hold multiples of the same tool; the machines are ale to detect tool wear or amount of time used and swap to a new tool.

As for thumbs down on youtube, I hardly even notice. Generally I'm watching your videos from here on the pages so that the thumbs and comments aren't visible.

[hjl4]

Does anybody really look at the thumbs up or down before watching a video?
I know I don't.
I agree, the Facebook culture is too critical but yet at the same time, so irrelevant.
As for the IQ of the planet, I would argue it is not a constant. The human brain is constantly evolving. Which means your constant is no longer.
A great movie about society and what the future holds if we stay on course with the current education curriculum, is Idiocracy.

[Novakon]

Just a little more information for those who are wondering what drove the original ATC design and the number of tools...

We believe the 12 tool carousel will meet most everyone's needs for a practical number of tools for the carousel. What has to be kept in mind is the ATC/PDB will also be available for the Pulsar. Specifically on the Pulsar, we feel very certain there will be a definite need for more tool space since the Pulsar has the rigid tapping capability. Unlike the Torus PRO, the Pulsar can perform rigid tapping in addition to end milling. So, the number of drills, taps and end mills can easily exceed the 12 tool carousel for a single project pushing the need closer to 24 tools, or even more. Twenty four tools seemed to be the practical tool limit using available space on our VMCs using this design.

We believe everyone will be amazed when you see the Pulsar operating using a 4th axis, rigid tapping and end milling in concert with the ATC/PDB combination.

Regards,
Novakon Team

[DaQue]

The guys with lots of mounted tools I referred to had lots of drill chucks, taps, reamers, probes, center and edge finders, etc. 12 sounds like as a good number as any for a ATC.. Ha maybe you could make a platter of tools you could swap out all 12 at once. Joking.. I think...

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Ha maybe you could make a platter of tools you could swap out all 12 at once. Joking.. I think...

That was a planned feature when the design was a simple carousel. But we felt the current "chain" configuration, which gives the ability to easily and inexpensively expand the number of tools to 18 or 24, was a better option.

Regards,
Ray L.

[DaQue]

I have to agree with you there. I should go back and read this whole thread on the PC, I'm missing too much sneak reading it at work and in the car (parked).

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

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[sagreen]

I know most of my jobs are under a dozen tools, but there are probably 10-15 tools most of which get used very often, so it would be convenient if those could just live in the ATC all the time. Plus, with an ATC I would do the CAM so I used more tools, since toolchanges would be no hassle. I would I agree for the average user, 12 should be more than plenty. I would not expect a lot of people to go for the 18- or 24-tool options.

Regards,
Ray L.

So, lets say you have 50 tools in TTS holders in your tool cart. You have 12 spots on your ATC, and a job that uses 5 tools. Lets say they are tool numbers (from the tooltable) 5,10,15,20,25. How do you go about translating these tool numbers that will be used by the CAM program into spots on the toolchanger? Is there a job specific translation that can be made?

Scott...

[SCzEngrgGroup]

So, lets say you have 50 tools in TTS holders in your tool cart. You have 12 spots on your ATC, and a job that uses 5 tools. Lets say they are tool numbers (from the tooltable) 5,10,15,20,25. How do you go about translating these tool numbers that will be used by the CAM program into spots on the toolchanger? Is there a job specific translation that can be made?

Scott...

Scott,

There are as many ways of handling that as Carter has Little Liver Pills. The simple answer is, you still have to setup a tool table to at least tell the ATC which tool is in which slot. If you want to get fancy, you can write a custom POST for whatever CAM you're using that is smart enough to know which slots hold your "fixed" tools, and automatically assign them correctly. Then you just have to manually setup the non-fixed ones. Or, do what I plan to do: Make the POST smart enough to tell you which tool to put in which slot, and to minimize moving of tools from job to job.

Regards,
Ray L.

[rlockwood]

Usually, you have available a T# code, which sets which tool to select from the tool changer. You then have an offset table with both H# (tool length offset) and D# (tool diameter offset) which can be used to store data specific to that tool. They dont necessarily have to correspond; so a wise man would reference the H# and D# to the specific tool in holder, regardless of the tool changer pot it sits in for s given job. In this way, tools don't need to be referenced each time, they simply need to be in the right spot in the tool changer.

[Tkamsker]

I let the cam autonumber it so Tool will be 1 to 5 in linuxcnc you have a Tool dB which stören the difference i use T1 M6 to get First Tool. Then i zero it. I have a Script where i run all 5 Tools where they are measured difference is stored in Tool table and finnaly T1 is checked if that Works i Start program no problem remark this Makel Sense if you often Change Tool

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Poop! Still don't have the new pulleys and belts for the transfer arm. I was hoping they'd show today, but no such luck. Hopefully tomorrow.

Meanwhile, making great progress on the firmware. I now have the tool lock plumbed in and working, the PDB interface is in, though not tested. And I've got the error handling framework in, so I now get very specific error messages if anything goes wrong. It evens allows multiple errors to be "queued up" by the various state machines (Master, Carousel, Arm, Lift, Lock, PDB), so I can report "soft" (auto-corrected) errors, as well as "hard" (uncorrectable) errors. Soon I will start putting in a "logging" capability, so there will be a detailed "trace" or log file for the system, that will be invaluable in helping to debug any problems that occur in the field. It will let me see the exact sequence of operations leading up to any error with pretty fine granularity (at least down to state in each state machine).

Regards,
Ray L.

[zanst]

There are as many ways of handling that as Carter has Little Liver Pills. The simple answer is, you still have to setup a tool table to at least tell the ATC which tool is in which slot. If you want to get fancy

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Unfortunately, I don't have a video to show, but the ATC is working pretty nicely now. I got the new belts and pulleys, which worked *almost* as expected - as always seems to happen, the SDP-SI center distance calculator under-estimates, so the belt is not quite tight enough, leaving a small amount of backlash. But, not enough to be a real problem. I added a hard-stop to align the arm to the carousel and spindle - TTS is just too unforgiving in terrms of alignment. I REALLY wish I could be doing this with 30-taper, it would make life so much easier....

But, the firmware is in good shape now, with the state machines almost fully implemented. All that's missing is retry logic, and no doubt there are a few errors I'm not yet trapping. But, the vast majority of error conditions are being properly detected and reported. I've spent much of the day running random toolchanges with few problems. There are still a number of hardware changes that need to be made to get full functionality. I currently have no sensing at all on the lift - it's running open-loop. I also need to extend the lift travel a bit, to accomodate the extra travel required by the hard-stop alignment feature, and I need to have two "up" positions for the lift - one for engaging with a tool held in the carousel or spindle, and another, higher, position to ensure the toolholder is fully inserted into the carousel or spindle. I also have one problem to resolve in homing the "lock", which turns out to be much trickier than I expected. And, I suspect I'll have to make one more pass through the lock mechanicals, to improve the self-centering action.

Unfortunately, I have to be out of town all next week, so probably won't be able to get a video up until I return.

Regards,
Ray L.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Here is a short, badly-lit video of the ATC doing a number of random toolchanges. It starts with an empty spindle, and loads the first tool, does several random tool changes, then unloads the last tool.

I'm not able to put actual toolholders in until I update the lift hardware for the extra travel needed to "shove" the toolholder fully into the receiver. As it is, the lock works most of the time, but occasionally jams due to the toolholder not always being pushed quite high enough.

Timing is in the target ballpark, with plenty of room for improvement (note there are currently several unnecessary pauses here and there...).

VID 20140720 083445 805 - YouTube

Regards,
Ray L.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

It's been a rather unproductive few weeks - a LOT of interruptions. But, below are a couple of videos showing the current state. I'll apologize in advance for the lousy "cinematography". Video ain't my thing....

I've got all four encoders on for the first time, and added a quick and dirty lock to keep the tool in the transfer arm fork (it was throwing them across the room....). There are a number of minor hardware issues that will have to be dealt with in the next rev of the hardware, but its all basically working, and looks very promising. The biggest single problem right now is the "homing" sequence for the tool receiver lock is not very good - it needs a dedicated sensor (which will be added). The lift suffered a mishap, and the linear beraings got damaged, so the lift is rough and noisy. New (different) bearings are on the way.

It's nice to see the electronics and firmware continue to prove quite robust. I've had no electronics failures, or even anomalies at all. There have also been no firmware crashes. There are bugs to be ironed out for sure, but overall it's working very nicely. And it's quite good at recovering from errors. In those cases where it can't clear the error itself, it does a good job of picking up where it left off after the user clears the actual error.

Here is it doing a sequence of three tool changes: loading tool 1, swapping to tool 6, re-loading tool 1, then unloading tool 1 back to the carousel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sf-jsJLgqE

Here is the console "trace" the firmware outputs to show what it's doing as it's running. This will give some idea of the complexity of the motion, as each line of output represents several, sometimes many, actual states in the firmware state machines that control the operation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GD-...ature=youtu.be

Regards,
Ray L.