[tjamscad]

Building a better LinuxCNC control

This is a project that I feel can't be avoided anylonger. LinuxCNC is becoming easier to use and more stable everyday. Before we know if it we will see it everywhere. So for some machinest some simple questions.

What machine info is needed first hand and what can be a button press away.


Are screen controls for overrides enough or do you prefer Physical dials and switches?


Ae there buttons that are quintessential 'Fanuc' like?


Ae they always in a certain position?


Is the concept of every thing on screen all the time the way to go or are modes the way to go ?


If modes where are the divisions?


Is editing the program on machine common?


What would make that easier?


Are touchscreen inputs useable or are real button (soft buttons) preferable?


Is probing screen/routine a must?


Do you routinely build programs on the machine or always download them?


Do you have a favorite control?


What makes that control better?


Is tool offset and wear offset editing a must have?

[neilw20]

Building a better LinuxCNC control

This is a project that I feel can't be avoided anylonger. LinuxCNC is becoming easier to use and more stable everyday. Before we know if it we will see it everywhere. So for some machinest some simple questions.

What machine info is needed first hand and what can be a button press away.


Are screen controls for overrides enough or do you prefer Physical dials and switches?
BOTH as an option

Are there buttons that are quintessential 'Fanuc' like?
Dunno

Are they always in a certain position?
Dunno


Is the concept of every thing on screen all the time the way to go or are modes the way to go ?
Modes, because if touch screen, touch areas would get too small.


If modes where are the divisions?
Look at Mach3 for ideas.


Is editing the program on machine common?
YES

What would make that easier?
Automatically enter favorite editor with a ALT-hotkey, button or mouse


Are touchscreen inputs useable or are real button (soft buttons) preferable?
BOTH. I run an external cycle start and pause right at the machine.

Is probing screen/routine a must?
Many will need it. Some won't

Do you routinely build programs on the machine or always download them?
BOTH

Do you have a favorite control?
Cycle start, pause but hate Estop.


What makes that control better?
Being where I want it. Not on some dumb screen or panel.


Is tool offset and wear offset editing a must have?

YES

I use Mach3, but will look at EMC one day.

[tjamscad]

LinuxCNC is a must to look at. It has been improving and the latest realese is working just fine. After a GUI update LinuxCNC will change the world.

[salzburg]

We need EMC2 without the linux crap. The linux part has been screwed

up royaly by programmers.

[neilw20]

Nerds are often not proper realtime programmers. Leaving timers to manage happenings can lead to race conditions.
I'm not saying it all can't be done properly, but are speaking from years of experience involved with linux programmers.
I'm not saying Windows is the best solution, by any stretch of the imagination.
Ask a nerd to explain resource locking, and if the say 'what?' or ignore you then realtime ain't for them.

[samco]

I have been using linuxcnc running a large hmc. Pallets, tool chain - changer, 16 speed spindle.... I am using only linuxcnc and its integrated ladder. No 'WTF' moments at all. So that is 4 axis + spindle + 96 i/o + spindle synced motion (like rigid tapping), stuff I have forgotten...

all i/o is realtime controlled.

sam

[neilw20]

That's good. Looks like there were no nerds in the loop, but some exist. They are identified by their distinct anti Windows/MS bias rather than using the right tool for the job. They often only have one eye. Also they tend to be 'specialists' with a very narrow skill set.

[samco]

One of the reasons Linux is the os for linuxcnc because there are Realtime kernal patches that are free and opensource. Right now the main one is rtai - but work is happening right now to support -preempt and xenomai. This will make linuxcnc less dependent on a single distro of linux (ubuntu at the moment).

There isn't a free realtime add-on for windows and it is very expensive the last I looked.

sam

[neilw20]

OK, sam.
Can you gives us a link to the specs on the realtime add-on for Windows. Always good to learn from the specs.

[tjbaudio]

That's good. Looks like there were no nerds in the loop, but some exist. They are identified by their distinct anti Windows/MS bias rather than using the right tool for the job. They often only have one eye. Also they tend to be 'specialists' with a very narrow skill set.

I resemble that remark! (wedge)
I have the anti MS bias but I still use the right tool for the job. The most expensive computer I own is running Windows along with some very expensive “right tool for the job” software. Having said that my day to day computing and 99% of my business needs are handled by variations of Linux.
I really wish linuxCNC was not tied to Ubuntu as tight as it is. I use the standard Ubuntu/linuxCNC release because that's what the official package is built for. Over all I find Ubuntu only a little more reliable than windows. At least with Ubuntu I have a fighting chance to fix some thing that's wrong. With Windows it's an endless loop of software updates and money down the toilet. My normal experience with Windows is frustration. It's not that I don't know my way around windows, I can run circles around most people regardless of OS, it's just that Windows does not give me any REAL access to fix stuff.

[tjamscad]

neilw20, I would like for you to take a look at LinuxCNC and provide me some feed back compared to Mach3. This is one interface I have been following closly for LinuxCNC http://www.linuxcnc.org/media/kunena...om_buttons.png

[CaptainVee]

We need EMC2 without the linux crap. The linux part has been screwed up royaly by programmers.

This kind of blurb does not help in any way without explanation.

Id be interested in to lookin in to way to make linuxcnc work more pleasurable.

To start with I'd say, change the name (again). linuxcnc is only descriptive but this name makes it really hard to explain to newcommers that only know windows or maybe mac. EMC was a lot clearer in that respect.

I'd like some extra info in my screen.
But in general, I think axis is a lot (edit: An enormous amount) nicer that what I have seen from Mach. But it could be a lot better. I'll see what (if anything) I can come up with.

I'd like an easy way to add an extra keyboard or joystick, without "programming".

The next image from the link above is a lot nicer than mach but much to cramped for me, I'd like to be able to hide every button after learning the shortcut:

[neilw20]

IMHO, Poor grouping of functions and indicators.
Select buttons: doh! What are the others for?
Where is cycle start?
Position? Absolute? Relative? to what?
Look closely at the Mach screens. Grouping has been carefully thought out.
When doing certain types of operations all the other controls have no relevance.
eg. MDI and setting up rarely need access to program editing, once it is loaded.
When is the last time you saw a 4:3 screen? Last century?
You also must give consideration to color blind people.
Green and red things are often the same shade of brown.
That's why the earth wire has a yellow trace.

[tjamscad]

I'd like an easy way to add an extra keyboard or joystick, without "programming".

The next image from the link above is a lot nicer than mach but much to cramped for me, I'd like to be able to hide every button after learning the shortcut:

Please explain "able to hide every button after learning the shortcut"?

[neilw20]

That's right. Learn the shortcut, use it and come back in two weeks and forget what some of the shortcuts are.
Now you need a help screen and key. Hey windows! I want my F1 key back and if I hit ALT don't steal focus from important task. Be vary careful with hotkeys.
At least label the key, like you can in Mach. Sure, make the key small, but don't hide the damn thing.

[tjamscad]

IMHO, Poor grouping of functions and indicators.
Select buttons: doh! What are the others for?
Where is cycle start?
Position? Absolute? Relative? to what?
Look closely at the Mach screens. Grouping has been carefully thought out.
When doing certain types of operations all the other controls have no relevance.
eg. MDI and setting up rarely need access to program editing, once it is loaded.
When is the last time you saw a 4:3 screen? Last century?
You also must give consideration to color blind people.
Green and red things are often the same shade of brown.
That's why the earth wire has a yellow trace.

Select buttons they are all selectable when the conditions are met, Like Mach.
Cycle start is on the program page(tab).
Position, Absolute and Relative are of couse position readouts.
Color blind people good call I didnt even think about that.
This was just a screen shot. It will fit a 16:9 screen and the theme colors can be changed by the user.

Can you explain the grouping and functions issues?

[CaptainVee]

If you know what key to push on the keyboard I would want to hide the corresponding button in the GUI and use the keyboard.

And yes, I'd like to have a key on the keyboard for every button on the GUI, preferably remapable to another key...