[Randy Stevenson]

Just curious...

If you were just starting to learn CAD-CAM, and had the option of using (learning) an old release of Autocad, say release 11, or the latest version of BobCad, which would you choose?

BobCad includes the CAM side with post-processor, so it's an all-in-one package, whereas Autocad would need something for the CAM side.

Randy

[ger21]

I wouldn't bother with any version of AutoCAD older than V14. I've never used BobCAD, so I won't comment on it.

The type of parts you want to make have some bearing on which direction you go. Also, is this for a hobby application?

There are plenty of inexpensive CAD and CAM programs available. You might want to take a look at an inexpensive CAD program, like DesignCAD, and use that with SheetCAM. www.imsisoft.com www.sheetcam.com

Once you learn a 2D type CAD program, it's usually not hard to switch to another.

[jonbanquer]

Just curious...

If you were just starting to learn CAD-CAM, and had the option of using (learning) an old release of Autocad, say release 11, or the latest version of BobCad, which would you choose?

BobCad includes the CAM side with post-processor, so it's an all-in-one package, whereas Autocad would need something for the CAM side.

Randy

Not enough info provided to give you an intelligent answer.

What kind of parts do you model ?

Do you have plans to create models with aesthetically pleasing lines such as consumer items or maybe something like a car body or would you be happy with something that just did prismatic (block like) models ?

Is high quality training material important to you like it is to me or do you prefer to attend seminars for the basics ?

What is your budget ?

Is wide spread use of the product you learn important because this is something your doing to increase your marketability or do you care much more about technology and implementation in a CADCAM product ?

jon

"I may have many faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." ... Jimmy Hoffa

[Randy Stevenson]

Thanks for the reply.

My hobbies seem to keep me busy making parts - mainly for old aircraft or motorcycles, or old machines, etc. Just learing CAD, I've been using release 11 Autocad, with a tablet, off and on but not enough to get proficient with it. I have not done any 3D work with it, and it won't do solids. Haven't even done any rendering (I dont have the AME option, so maybe I can't). My only training has been the book. However, the more I use it, even for archetectual stuff around the house, the more I appreciate it and like using it.

With the recent purchase of an old Anilam equipped 3 axis Lagun knee mill, I see the need to dive into learing CAD/CAM. I was hesitant to spend a bunch of time and effort learning an old version of Autocad, so I looked and looked but could not find any package that seemed a better value than Bobcad 20. I figured I'd have a CAD system a dozen years or so newer than what I had, and also get the CAM side I need to run the mill. I made the assumption the Bobcad had to be better than what I had, simply due to the age difference.

I've been going through the Bobcad training, and the software seems night and day to what I've been using - I'm really thrilled, but... in the short time I've worked with it, I've experienced a few crashes and had to find a work around for something that I thought should have worked as is. Combine this with some of the negative posts I occasionally see about Bobcad, I wonder if even an old version of an expensive program like Autocad is more functional than a new version of some of the lower priced products. Never had any trouble with Autocad whatsoever, and maybe someone out there who knows R11 might say it's every bit as good once you learn it.

If I can learn how keep BC from crashing (don't mind a documentated work-around or two), and it runs the machine OK (my Anilam is a conversational box), I'll be more than satisfied.

[jonbanquer]

"but... in the short time I've worked with it, I've experienced a few crashes and had to find a work around for something that I thought should have worked as is."

LOL

This is yet another reason why some of our users still use BobCADCAM V17. In addition the integration is better in V17 as far as the NC Editor and the CAD Window are concerned. V20 was a step backward in regards to the latter. I often experience what you do as far as crashing V20. V17 is very stable.

"Combine this with some of the negative posts I occasionally see about Bobcad,..."

All one has to do is check http://www.practicalmachinist.com in the CNC Forum. There is very good reason why so many people are so unhappy with BobCADCAM and it's management.

Based on what you describe you do, I think you should download Rhino. The downloadable demo version does everything the full version of Rhino does except it will only save 25 times. After that it keeps working but you can no longer save your work. It also has the Copy and Cut To Clipboard function disabled. Rhino can be downloaded from McNeel's website:

www.rhino3d.com

There is no comparsion CAD wise between Rhino and BobCAD. It's not even close. If you take any student courses in design you can purchase the educational version (no difference between educational version and regular version) for around $200. After you are done with classes you can use the educational version to make money with. The regular version is often discounted by Rhino Value Added Resellers. I think it's often sold between $600 and $800. Why not download Rhino and tell me what you think ? McNeel also has a user group for Rhino that is open to anyone... you don't have to own the software. The help there is very good. Also, Rhino has some of the best documentation in the business.... especially the Level 2 training guide. Just excellent.

I think if you try Rhino you probably will never go back to AutoCAD R11.

jon

"I may have many faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." ... Jimmy Hoffa

[kenlambert]

Bobcad works fine for me I do hobby stuff ,started with v19 and now have v20 it seems that when v19 crashed ofter all the updates was when I would lick on the wrong process for what i was doing. You can change the auto save settings and if it does crash you will not lose anything. I haven't had any problems with v20 so far. I have autodesk 2006 and Alibre 8.2 Pro and still do all my stuff in Bobcad.

[Dan B]

I think if you try Rhino you probably will never go back to AutoCAD R11.

Wait until you see what Rhino V4 has in store. It's currently in beta right now, and I can tell you that there are some major enhancements. Associativity between curves and surfaces, a layout mode, linetypes and weights, UDT (for solid deformation), and much more.

The following link is not public knowledge yet (it's still being developed so it's not 100% complete), but check it out:

http://www.rhino3d.com/4/newfeatures.htm

Watch for it this summer.

Dan

[kenlambert]

Mortimer
Bobcad can do those from what my cd's show.

[jonbanquer]

Wait until you see what Rhino V4 has in store. It's currently in beta right now, and I can tell you that there are some major enhancements. Associativity between curves and surfaces, a layout mode, linetypes and weights, UDT (for solid deformation), and much more.

The following link is not public knowledge yet (it's still being developed so it's not 100% complete), but check it out:

http://www.rhino3d.com/4/newfeatures.htm

Watch for it this summer.

Dan

Is there a Level 3 Rhino Training manual yet ? Has one been announced ?

I'm suppose to have VX 12 here in a few weeks. Be interesting to see how far along they have come with the UI overhaul they started in VX 11. This VX 12 release is right on the heals of VX 11.... someone's working hard !

No matter what happens with VX 12 I most likely will get Rhino 4 despite my displeasure with how long it has taken to get Rhino where it should have been.

Have you used any of N Powers add-ins for Rhino ? Are they popular ?

jon

"I may have many faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." ... Jimmy Hoffa

[Dan B]

Hi Jon,

I have never seen a level 3 tutorial.

As for the N-Power plug-ins, yes I have tried them. I personally didn't like them, so we never purchased them. I don't hear too much about them, so I would guess that they are not too popular.

Dan

[mortimer]

All this talk about BobCadCAM makes me worried as it is the software that comes with the Router I am buying. How good is it though with 3D and relief carving? I will be doing carvings for bed heads and drawer fronts among trophies and plaques and signs. Can Bobcad do stuff like this in the picture?

[eman5oh]

Check out A9 cad it mostly the same as recent Autocad releases and is free.

[mortimer]

thanks Ken. I still need to know about EzRouter. Has anyone used their cnc table?

[racerguy13]

I have an Anilam Crusader II controler and I am trying to make it talk with Bobcad V18 and I can not get it to communicate it will send info from the controller but it comes in on the pc as just random letters and numbers I have made sure that all the parameters are correct and still nothing if you have any suggestions let me know. Thanks
Rick

[The One]

The numbers and letters ae commonly due to having the one of the settings wrong. A common misconception is that the settings in BobCAD need to match the settings in the control exactly. This is not the case. You may have better results if you vary the settings.

Try using 7 Data Bits, Even Parity and 1 Stop Bit. This is the most common setting to get the correct data into BobCAD-CAM. If that does not work try changing The Stop Bit to 2 and see if that handles. Otherwise you may want to call Support for BobCAD or the machine, I would go to BobCAd first as that is where you are finding the error.

Regards

[Randy Stevenson]

I wanted to follow-up on my original post, and give credit where credit is due.

Now that I've had some time to draw a few parts with V20.6, I'm getting pretty comfortable with the software, and have been able to do what I want to do without having to refer back to the training CD's too often. There might be a couple of things that I wish worked otherwise (3 entity arc doesn't rubberband like Autocad, for one), but overall I am extremely pleased with the value. BC is a lot easier for me to use than the old version of Autocad, and the ability to work in 3D with solids, and quickly render the part, makes all the difference in the world. Hopefully, when I start cutting parts, I'll feel the same.

As an aside, I requested a quote to machine a motorcycle wheel the other day, and offered to send the file in BobCAD. The response was a terse "$8000 minimum". I figured he was just blowing off some amateur who uses BC. I responded by asking if the price would be half if I did not send them a BC file, expecting no reply, or maybe a 'don't bother me again' reply. He did respond, and even said "I have bobcad, I use it on some things and it works fine. Sometimes better than the software I paid 25,000.00 for".

I was pretty apprehensive about buying BC after some of the critical posts out there, but the more I use it, the happier I am with it.

[Mike Mattera]

Not sure how this thread went from Bobcam and R11 Acad to VX, WorkNC & Gibbs. I'm guessing that the budget for this CadCam project is from $0 - $1000. And he'd probably like to stay closer to $0.

I wouldn't bother learning acad11. Very old stuff and soo much different from newer prognams you migh learn in the future, It will probably get into some bad habits.

I'm assuming that your doing 2D work and 3D surface models becaiuse your not going to (easily) make 3D models (wireframe or surfaces) in Acad11. I have never used Bobcam, but for the money it's not a bad product.

If your going to take the time to learn something, you might want to consider an integrated package like Bobcam. Cad & Cam all in one place. One place to call for support. A current version that supports current operating systems (Win XP).

If your budget alows for it, Mastercam & Egecam both have packages for 2D milling that start at about $3000. Those are upgradable to more powerfum versions.

Mike Mattera

[lakeside]

With Bobcad Latest Release Of Version 21 Out. They Are Selling Version 19 For $500. It Can Do 3d But Is Very Hard To Learn. At That Price A Diy Can Get A 3d Drawing Package And 3d Cam Package. But I Still Feel What Every You Decide On You Should Try As My Demo Frist. Get What You Need, Not What A Saleman Says You Need. With Software There Is A Huge Mark-up. So A Little Crying Can Save A Lot. Also Take The Time To Realy Learn The Software And Not Just Run It. Say Away From Cracked Software You Will Need Support With What Ever You Buy

[Uncle Buck]

all the basic functions are the same for any version autocad...
I learned on V10 for Dos and 11 for windows and i haven't been trained since...
Right now i'm using ACAD 2006. My choice would be Autocad, even if it is an older version. when going to a new version, only a few buttons/icons change. I personally don't use the icons, i just type in the command line...

I have been using Autocad for 10 years and personally don't like the way Bobcad goes about things. I do use Bobcad for programming my Wire EDM Machine, but even there, i import all my drawings from Autocad.

It's all personal Preference...
But If it was my choice, i'd go with an older Autocad, before the newer Bobcad though....

[tjones]

Autocad V11 is not worth the effort of use. If you are trying to learn a CAD program then don't go with Bobcad as it is not designed to be the best CAD but you could if you need CAM along with the CAD for a cheap price.

If you want CAD then I suggest Alibre. Their Xpress version has a wide range from free to addons for extra capabilities including 2D drawings which can be made from the solid part (the 2d updates when a change is made to the solid model). This is really a great parametric solid modeling software. Parametric modeling and even boolean features (even this is in the design lists) all for a great price.

You can play with the free Xpress to learn modeling and either buy addon modules for more capabilities or buy one of the full versions. The pro and higher versions now have configurations so the assemblies can be changed around with a click.

BTW..Bobcad loads files from many different CAD formats.