[notprtty]

Hey guys,
Hope it's ok to put this here. I didn't see anything else about it, so I hope this isn't repeat info. I was just poking around on the Hurricane site, ogling the laser I'll be buying soon, and noticed they have a kickstarter going for the next few weeks!

Looks like an awesome deal. For like $1k more than the normal retail price for the machine, you get just about all the accessories, shipping, AND the new software they're doing the kickstarter to develop.

Thought you might be interested! Check it out.
Making Lasers Easier to Use and Affordable for Everyone by john Kaspar — Kickstarter

Maygin

[TurbineJesse]

Yep, he had made a quick mention of it in the 3rd reply here:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/genera...universal.html

I remembered that post because I had checked it out myself. :-)

[notprtty]

Yeah, I noticed he mentioned it. But I still think it deserves its own thread, just in case people don't go to that one

[Bec Weir]

I think limiting any program to use just the Imperial System of Measurment (Feet and inches) is limiting your customer base,

The rest of the world uses the Metric System, have the program able to toggle between the two systems would create a greater customer base.

[notprtty]

I think limiting any program to use just the Imperial System of Measurment (Feet and inches) is limiting your customer base,

The rest of the world uses the Metric System, have the program able to toggle between the two systems would create a greater customer base.

Agreed. Especially since the machines themselves are measured in Metric (work area is so many cm, which is approx. so many inches). But I can understand if they are only trying to cater to an American customer base why they wouldn't worry about it. So long as my laser understands what it's doing, I'll be happy.

[atv2]

I'm kinda excited about the new software, but this is a weird kickstarter. Most of the video is an ad, very little about exactly how the money will be used, besides making videos and vague "engineering" changes. It feels like Kickstarter spam.

[mondo50m]

That was kind of my thought. Why would a company that sells Lasers be kickstarting a Laser?
I thought kickstarter was for new ideas, etc.

[notprtty]

The text in the Kickstarter explains what the money is for.

Kickstarter is for whatever users want it to be for. From a company expanding, to new companies getting started, bands wanting tour money, etc.

It seems to me (and I could be mistaken, this is just an opinion) that Hurricane is going to be making these changes regardless, they're just trying to raise some money up front AND give the consumers a discount and head start in the process. Nothing wrong with that.

[atv2]

Yeah, I suppose they could post whatever they want on KS, but I think the core users of KS are looking to invest in more of the start ups, and not so much a sale or discount. That's what Groupon is for

Whatever, I certainly have nothing against Hurricane, they've contributed to the forums, and unlike some of the vendors (*cough* FSL) they are clear about where they machines come from, and seem to have a pretty happy customer following, so to that end, I hope they get to their $50k goal.

Sure would like to see the LaserCut replacement software be closer to the $300-$400 range.

[2dcreations]

Does anyone know if this software going to be open source?

[atv2]

Does anyone know if this software going to be open source?

I doubt it. There are $895 reasons why I don't think it'll be open source.

[TurbineJesse]

Even beyond that... if they're looking for $50,000 to "help" with the costs of developing this software, that alone is enough to let you know, loud and clear, that this will not be open source. Those costs have to be recouped somehow, and "giving" it away via "open source" certainly wont allow that.

[mochouinard]

Even the FSL kickstarter, I found it border edge limit, as it a finish product and is basically just selling a product, but it was a recent development made product...

However this one really feel just like selling product like a groupon as mentioned by atv2.

If they wanted to focus on software and it being open source, sure I would have join the wagon... But I really feel it was only made following the FSL one. Yet, FSL did offer a machine that you haven't seen anywhere else as far as I can tell, and does look made and designed in house. (Even if they seem to have lot of bad business practice)

I might even look into working on open source software for the FSL machine I'll get to play with (if they ever ship it !!!). I hate windows/mac as much as to write stuff from scratch just so I don't dual boot. Even if it just a proof of concept. But I did write printer driver before and are really not a bid deal. The laser control seem fairly basic stuff to do compare to a 3d printer where you have lot of parameters to take care of.

So i really got mix feeling about it. I hope the price they offer on it are really good deal and not just the normal price... So at less it might be worth to some kickstarter people.

[geo_man]

I kinda got that spam feeling too watching the video.
The china factory is already offering the safety glass, LED lighting, and pass
through doors. Not sure why they would need the money to implement an
already existing design. Sounds like a way to increase profits and sell more
machines.
GM

[RossMosh]

Getting some Chinese or Indian software development group to come up with a standard print driver can't cost more than $10,000. It's probably closer to $5,000. Why exactly do they need $50,000?

[notprtty]

Getting some Chinese or Indian software development group to come up with a standard print driver can't cost more than $10,000. It's probably closer to $5,000. Why exactly do they need $50,000?

Pretty sure it's not just some random Chinese or Indian software development group. Also, it's not just a print driver. As I understand it, it's actually the entire design program AND the print driver. Maybe read the Kickstarter for the answers to your questions?

ETA: The computer programmers I know will barely even go to a meeting to DISCUSS software development for $5k, let alone actually create anything.

[atv2]

Looking into this a little more, it seems Hurricane is contracting CADlabs to custom develop some software to work with the Leetro boards, and the $50k is probably going to pay for some or all of that development cost. Since CADlink already owns much of the technology (they have products that deal with laser engravers, Cnc machines plasma cutters, etc already), the only development work they are doing is the driver, branding, and integration.

I suspect that the license Hurricane will get is a non-exclusive license without royalty free distribution rights, and this may be why the cost is so high for the software ($895!)--some of this goes to Hurricane and some goes back to CADlink.

Anyway, I would have preferred that Hurricane's KS thing was *just* for the software, and maybe some disclosure as to how the 50k is used, licensing structure, software roadmap, detailed capabilities (especially compared to LaserCut), etc.

The KS thing ends in 19 days, they are still about 90% away from their goal, and I am not expecting it to reach it's goal. Why?

Well, the pros have either paid for the higher end machines and don't have this print driver issue, or have work arounds that sufficiently addresses the issues, and they are probably too busy to play around with untested stuff--they make their living on their machines, and can't afford to be down or spend a lot of time figuring stuff out.

The hobby-level guys like me are typically too cheap to bet $895 on software they haven't seen before, and LaserCut 5.3 isn't that bad. It's actually pretty good, and I've figured out most of the features I care about, so $895 to make it slightly easier to engrave isn't that exciting.

Now, if the price point was less than 1/2 that, I'd consider it. If it was $895 and the result would be open source, and was led by someone creditble, I'd consider backing it.

[RossMosh]

Pretty sure it's not just some random Chinese or Indian software development group. Also, it's not just a print driver. As I understand it, it's actually the entire design program AND the print driver. Maybe read the Kickstarter for the answers to your questions?

ETA: The computer programmers I know will barely even go to a meeting to DISCUSS software development for $5k, let alone actually create anything.

1. I've read about Kickstarters. It's never really made sense to me. If your business idea is strong, then a bank will loan you money. Most of the time people doing it are flakes or have a bad business plan.

2. It's a complete waste of time and resources to reinvent the wheel. There is absolutely no need to develop a stand alone program. The only reason they would do things that way is so they can keep people using another type of laser from using their driver. If anything, they could take Inkscape and just come up with a few clever plugins to make it more friendly for their lasers.

3. $10,000 is 2.5 months of work for your average programmer making $50,000 a year. You could get a team of 5 software engineers in India for the same $10,000 for that period of time.

The reality is, if Hurricane was smart, they'd come up with a print driver simple print driver and make it available to the world. They'd take a larger chunk of the market simply because they decided to show initiative and ambition vs being more or less an importer/exporter.

[notprtty]

1. I've read about Kickstarters. It's never really made sense to me. If your business idea is strong, then a bank will loan you money. Most of the time people doing it are flakes or have a bad business plan.

2. It's a complete waste of time and resources to reinvent the wheel. There is absolutely no need to develop a stand alone program. The only reason they would do things that way is so they can keep people using another type of laser from using their driver. If anything, they could take Inkscape and just come up with a few clever plugins to make it more friendly for their lasers.

3. $10,000 is 2.5 months of work for your average programmer making $50,000 a year. You could get a team of 5 software engineers in India for the same $10,000 for that period of time.

The reality is, if Hurricane was smart, they'd come up with a print driver simple print driver and make it available to the world. They'd take a larger chunk of the market simply because they decided to show initiative and ambition vs being more or less an importer/exporter.

You confuse me. First you say that Hurricane has a terrible business plan for using any and all resources at their disposal. Which is silly to begin with. Why take out a loan that will COST money in the end, when you can offer your customers huge discounts instead? Also, banks don't just hand out money for good ideas. Small businesses, for example, must show good PERSONAL credit. I think your idea of the business loan is a little naive.

Then you say that trying to improve on something is a bad idea. That... I just don't get. You would have been angry when they switched from actual horses and buggies to engines in cars, huh?

But finally, I'm not sure what programmers you know who only make $50k/yr, that seems extremely low. But the important part is, why are you so keen on everything being outsourced? The point of buying from an American company (when you can get the same machine direct from China) is, presumably, American support. American-made software and print drivers that are easier for me to use are a GOOD thing. Outsourcing something to replace something that was already outsourced? What's the point in that?

[RossMosh]

You confuse me. First you say that Hurricane has a terrible business plan for using any and all resources at their disposal. Which is silly to begin with. Why take out a loan that will COST money in the end, when you can offer your customers huge discounts instead? Also, banks don't just hand out money for good ideas. Small businesses, for example, must show good PERSONAL credit. I think your idea of the business loan is a little naive.

Then you say that trying to improve on something is a bad idea. That... I just don't get. You would have been angry when they switched from actual horses and buggies to engines in cars, huh?

But finally, I'm not sure what programmers you know who only make $50k/yr, that seems extremely low. But the important part is, why are you so keen on everything being outsourced? The point of buying from an American company (when you can get the same machine direct from China) is, presumably, American support. American-made software and print drivers that are easier for me to use are a GOOD thing. Outsourcing something to replace something that was already outsourced? What's the point in that?

1. I've been in small business all my life. I know what's involved in getting a loan. If you want to hit up strangers for money on the internet, more power to you but I have enough experience with internet businesses to know better. If I give Hurricane $500 and they flake out, they aren't accountable. If the bank loans them $50,000 they are.

2. I don't get your point. There is no way a small company can develop to the level CorelDraw, Adobe Illustrator, or AutoCAD can. If you attempt to come up with a stand alone piece of software it will be full of bugs and issues. Unless you're absolutely 100% dedicated to that process, you're just going to end up with a software with a ton of bugs. It's much smarter to take something open source, like Inkscape, and spend 100 hours tweaking up some plugins then it is to start from nothing and have to go through the same growing pains and bugs that they had to. The reality is, no one really wants some proprietary software because if they move to another laser, it can be a major inconvenience. The printer driver is a good idea. The entire software package is an awful idea.

3. $60k a year is the median income for a software engineer. $5,000 for a print driver isn't a bad gig. Go on Craiglist and post an ad. You'll get more than one inquiry. Also why are you bringing up outsourcing when that's what Hurricane laser is built upon? If you have a problem with outsourcing, then you shouldn't be buying a Chinese laser.