[Skiroy]

I know this isnt Mechanical Engineering but I dont know where else to post it. Basically we braze copper tubing in which the brazer use flux which fills the plant with white smoke(Boric Acid). We have hood that are connected to 2 Air Horns creating the ventilation.

The problem is my employer has a Main line coming off the 3" Airline Pipe. It goes from the pipe through a 1.5" hose into a 3/4" T fittings where it splits and goes to 2 seperate Air Regulators which eac h go to a seperate Air Horn. The Main Line Pressure is abou 120-135PSI.

The problem is these things are only getting 60-70PSI turn all the way up and they are not sucking out the Boric Acid properly.

I am guessing its because its split at the regulators. If Its split at where it comes off the main 3" pipe or if I beefed up the 3/4" to 1.5" where it splits can I get an increase of pressure?

[holbieone]

you should be looking at cfm's too

[txcncman]

You could probably put in 5 air horns with 5 separate 1-1/2" regulators and still not get enough venturi vacuum air flow to remove all of the white smoke (boric acid). Installing a proper ventilation system is the best answer here.

[Skiroy]

You could probably put in 5 air horns with 5 separate 1-1/2" regulators and still not get enough venturi vacuum air flow to remove all of the white smoke (boric acid). Installing a proper ventilation system is the best answer here.

Yes in my dream world. I have tried and tried to convince these people of this. I offered other solutions ect. ect. ect.. Bottom line is they do not care about our health and I have wanted to call OSHA but I fear because Im the only one here that could provide the details involve with the whole situation that I would be discovered. I live in a place where Jobs are impossiable to find.

I am having more and more irritation with the air quality and honestly I would try and change the air line configuration without there knowledge. If would help. Im desperate.

[Geof]

Replacing the 3/4 tee with something larger would certainly help. Taking out the regulators and just running larger lines to each horn will help more. The regulators are probably causing more restriction than the tee.

You say the horns are attached to hoods. Like fume hoods? If you can install screens around the brazing area so when the fumes drift up they are intercepted more efficiently by the hoods that will help also.

[bebob1]

It should be mentioned that modifying one's employer's equipment without consent is quite possibly dangerous and illegal. If one thinks the employer is not doing things properly then one can probably quit and report to heath and safety authorities rather than trying to modify things themselves which may very well make things worse and also now be liable for damages incurred.

[109jb]

Afraid to report a dangetous situation?

1. Discuss it with youremployer and tell them that you think it is a unsafe situation. Keep a record if dates and what was discussed.

2. If they don'tfix it then report them. You gave them a chance to do it on their own.

3. If they fire you for reporting it then inform OSHA that they have voilated the terms of the OSHA Whistleblower protection act. OSHA will go to bat for you to restore your job and pay.

Last thing. If they don't care about your health why do you care to work there.

[TomB]

When talking to the boss make the issue an economic one. Compressing air is a very expensive proposition while just sucking out fumes can be very cheap. A blower that pushes fumes into a sheet metal vent pipe will move more fumes than venturi systems and probably cost less than one days electric billl for the compressor.

[Skiroy]

Afraid to report a dangetous situation?

1. Discuss it with youremployer and tell them that you think it is a unsafe situation. Keep a record if dates and what was discussed.

2. If they don'tfix it then report them. You gave them a chance to do it on their own.

3. If they fire you for reporting it then inform OSHA that they have voilated the terms of the OSHA Whistleblower protection act. OSHA will go to bat for you to restore your job and pay.

Last thing. If they don't care about your health why do you care to work there.

1. Been done at least 12 times by me and others in 2 years I been here. Excuses. Levels have been checked out to be in regultions(Of course was was tested when exhaust fan is on but we are not allowed to run it). Also been told BORIC ACID is harmless,regardsless to the fact the MSDS says otherwise in relation to chronic exposure. This has been brought up long before I been here. DOES NO GOOD.

2. If I report them there is a high chance they will know its me for reasons I dont care to get into.

3. While they might not fire me,raises here are almost impossiable to get. Im been working on one for 10 months when I was told it would be in 6. There are people that have not had a raise in 3 years. Also more importantly I am a Automatin Tech working as a Machinist. Im entry level so the only way to land a job in my field is experience in Automation and PLC programming. There has only been 1 opportunity and maybe another future opportunity to do some of this here. They know thats what I really want to do and are slowly letting me do some of this. If they know I am the whistle blower I can kiss my raise and experience opportunity goodbye. Trust me it is that way here. And they are in legal rights to do so. There are people that are still going through the Temp. Agency after 2-3 years just because they dont socialized with the floor supervisor. And there is only one other business in my town that has anything to do with automation and they require experience.

Trust me because I interviewed for it already and they said I need more experience. So you see this job is my hell and my only ticket to a better future.

[Skiroy]

When talking to the boss make the issue an economic one. Compressing air is a very expensive proposition while just sucking out fumes can be very cheap. A blower that pushes fumes into a sheet metal vent pipe will move more fumes than venturi systems and probably cost less than one days electric billl for the compressor.

Trust me I can tell them it would save them $5000.00 a month and cost only $200.00 and they will shoot it down because its not their idea and it would mean there system is not working correctly. They dont want some young college kid telling them how to do things at the company they been running the show for 15 years when they had 20 employees.

Example. There is a large exhaust fan that when on it solves the problem,but due to it being next to the A/C vents(which were never ducted out through the plant) it sucks the cool air out and makes it hot and freezes up the crappy A/C. So we cant use the fan. Only for "10mins". So I offere to install a timed relay to cut on for 10mins every 30mins. Shot down 3x I brought it up. Was told the air horns are working good. Yet we are instructed to turn the fan on for only 10mins when it gets "smokey",which is 15 mins after you turn the fan off.

At this point Im trying to learn everything I can to get out of here and not leave with a permanent disorder from all the health hazards.

Cant win here. Trying to improve things here makes you a target and is taken as your trying ,"to stir their ship". I was actually told this after I suggested to service a system that had been acting up for months. 2 weeks later I found a brand newly purchsed system hidden in a box and still has not been installed. Apparently the manufacturer told them it did need to be serviced/or replaced. I suggested to service this thing and approached it as a possibility that it would help production. I received a email about how Im trying to, "Stir the ship and Im not running this place". It was sent to everyone including me and was brought up during the weekly meeting. This has been the attitude towards eveything suggested by everyone who suggests it. Since then I lay low and do things without them knowing so it doesnt turn into a pissing contest or " Look my truck is bigger than yours" in the sand box.

[bebob1]

You are the master of your own well being. Number one rule in occupational health and safety is the right of the worker to refuse to do a job if they dont feel it is safe for whatever stupid reason justified or not. If a job is truely viewed as hazardous to life, find another one. If the work environment/culture is socially toxic, start looking elsewhere and move when the option becomes available.

[mactec54]

Skiroy

The person that is brazing the copper pipes does not know what he is doing & should be stopped doing this

Copper brazing does not need any type of flux to be brazed

There is a rod called Silfos, your ac joints & copper plumbing pipes can be brazed with
this & has been around since the 1930s when it was invented, no flux is needed

Most welding suppliers carry Silfos rod,

[Skiroy]

Skiroy

The person that is brazing the copper pipes does not know what he is doing & should be stopped doing this

Copper brazing does not need any type of flux to be brazed

There is a rod called Silfos, your ac joints & copper plumbing pipes can be brazed with
this & has been around since the 1930s when it was invented, no flux is needed

Most welding suppliers carry Silfos rod,

We are beating a dead horse here. Im looking for a way to get the pressure up to the regulators. Telling them there 10 brazers dont know how to braze and to stop using the gasflux system they have been using for 10 years is not a solution.

I just need to know this.

The regulators are obviously splitting the Pressure. They each get 65PSI when the Main is 135PSI ish. Even though they are Split with a T pipe fitting, I dont get this. It does make logical sense but each station also has a seperate Regulator coming from the main 3" Air Pipe. Technically this is splitting the Air off the Main Line, just on a bigger scale, so why can these regulator get up to the full main pressure instead od the Pressure being divided by the number of regulators? Is it jus how clost the splits take place at? I included a crude pic to illustrate what Im asking.