[pete from TN]

Update...
Okay guys this thing is really starting to look like a VMC again LOL...
I managed to get the Y axis ballscrew cover back on there yesterday. It actually needed to be altered slightly because it travels thru the base of the column covering the Y axis ballscrew as well as the cable chain for the limits and homes and X axis servo wires. Well when it travels out the back of the machine ( it goes a long way) it would come to interfere with the Y axis motor electrical connectors. I jogged it very very slowly to see exactly where it would hit if it was allowed to travel that far then marked it and removed it to cut away the offending portion. It turned out to be about a quarter inch off the bottom edge of the raised portion near the back. Once I removed that it fit just fine and I am again able to home it and travel to the limits of the travel without interference. Now that that is done I can start putting the covers back on. I already installed the X axis motor mount cover with new RTV after cleaning up the old stuff and basically making it all look nice and clean.

Today I will be installing the new braking resistor for the spindle. It works now under linuxCNC control with reversing and speed control open loop but it takes a little bit for it to slow down from speed which is why it needs that braking resistor. Should help a bunch and allow the spindle motor to come down from it's lofty 12k rpm max to zero in a reasonable amount of time now. At slower speeds it works real nice and reversing for the forthcoming rigid tapping works as it should reversing on a dime and speeding up and that is without much tweaking of the settings so far.

I am having some difficulties with tuning the Z axis motor/driver. It works and the head goes up and down and the axis brake works as it should so no danger of the head falling or anything like that but right now when the head travels down for say the full distance of travel at anything over around 150 IPM it faults with a E 07.2 code which is overvoltage back into the drive from the weight of the head basically accelerating the motor down the column. I honestly do not thing it is that the motor is not strong enough as it will raise the head with some authority and speed enough to make me pretty nervous actually but going down it does not like it. I know they sell a braking resistor for the unit also which is an option but honestly it is probably not tuned correctly yet. I am new to this PID tuning and there is actually PID tuning in both the drive as well as in linuxCNC for each axis. It seems to be alright and it does not drift or oscillate but the motor always sounds like it is doing some very light dithering noises whenever it is at rest. The drives were pre-tuned from the supplier for most applications and they set it up for the Z without a counterweight for me but I am sure it still need some tweaking. If that does not work I can always get the resistor and try it and if that does not work I can swap this motor for a lower RPM unit that works with the same drive so its just a matter of finding what works best here I think. The head will rapid up the column at like 400 + IPM which is about as fast as I have had the balls to run it with ease it is just going down that it gives this issue. Any ideas from you retrofitters would be most apprecaited.

I should have the covers reinstalled today on the table movements. I got kinda anxious yesterday evening watching some youtube videos of machining parts so I went out there and clamped a hunk of aluminum to the table with my hold down set and whittled on it with the big corn cob rougher I got with those most graciously donated toolholders and I gotta say this sure is no RF45 LOL.... It is amazing the power it has and just jogging around cutting with the spindle not even setup right it really cuts thru aluminum like it is not even there.... Cannot wait to get it all sorted out and start cutting some steels and stainless etc....

I received my spindle encoder yesterday in the mail. I will start getting that thing installed which will require some fabrication of a mount that will go inside the spindle motor where the original resolver used to be as well as a stub shaft adapter lathe turned to go inside the spindle motors shaft to fit this 1/4 inch encoder wheel. Once that is done I will then be able to rigid tap with this thing and with some clever utilization of the existing switches should be able to get spindle alignment working for the toolchanger operations.

This is really starting to look nice here and with any luck I should have the basic three axis machine with limits/homes/spindle control/coolant control working here by the end of the week. That will FINALLY allow me to start making some parts again so I can take on some work with the machine and start paying myself back for all of this money and time I have invested in this thing. The toolchanger logic we are working on currently and Lee has been kind enough to give us his information about how his works. We are not going to do it exactly the same way but we DO intend to use whatever sequencing information he has been able to figure out so that we have a road to work from. That should be real interesting and I am open to hearing suggestions on how to proceed with the testing of the actions. So far we have the power drawbar working under linuxCNC control as well as the toolchanger ram pneumatics in both directions. Next up is the tool carousel motor and wiring up the various sensors into linuxCNC and we will be ready to start testing. Honestly if it takes awhile to make that work properly I am really fine with it as I want NO mistakes with that part of the system. It can be really dangerous so we will be proceeding with extreme caution when doing the setup. As long as I can use the basic machine in the mean time with full control and the power drawbar working I have a very useful tool at my disposal. Anyways that is where we are not with this monster and we are working steadily on it here. I feel very good about our progress and again cannot thank Art, Connor, Lee, Andy,Pete, and everyone else for all of their assistance with this project. Peace

Pete

[pete from TN]

Oh yeah almost forgot... I FINALLY ordered some coolant. I went with the masterchemical Trim Sol E206 stuff in the 5 gallon container. $109.00 with free shipping coupon from Useenco.com. My friend Joe in PA uses it in his Cincinatti arrow 500 with good results and apparently excellent life and resistance to spoiling. He said he has two 110v fish tank bubblers one in each coolant trough that keeps the stuff fresh in what is a machine that only gets used occasionally in his shop since it is a hobby more than a profession for him. If it works that well for him that way it should work great for me as I HOPE to be using it every day once it is working. Peace

Pete

[mike_Kilroy]

Today....spindle. .....without much tweaking of the settings so far.

Question: what is current shown in D002 at a few different speeds? Like 500, 1000, 2000, 5000, 12000rpm?

...Z axis motor/driver.....a E 07.2 code which is overvoltage back into the drive from the weight of the head basically accelerating the motor down the column. I honestly do not thing it is that the motor is not strong enough as it will raise the head with some authority and speed enough to make me pretty nervous actually but going down it does not like it. I know they sell a braking resistor for the unit also which is an option but honestly it is probably not tuned correctly yet....

Of course if your tuning is off and you are oscillating jerking it up and down all the time you will be regening to ps but it is most likely NOT that: that is a LOT of weight to stop. Sure the motor proven it has enough balls to move it quick, but that has nothing to do with the HUGE amount of joules that get dumped back to the drive on deceling it. IIRC a Z on these machines require about 6-9 amps to just hold from falling, 12-15amps to lift, -5amps to drive down (slowing the fall) and then all 15-20 amps to STOP the mass at decent couple hundred IPM down speed - this is WAY too much energy for the little caps in your drive to absorb: IIRC we use around 1500watt DB resistor to suck it out (prob need 30 ohms or less to suck it out FAST enough too).

I received my spindle encoder yesterday in the mail. I will start getting that thing installed which will require some fabrication .....

If'in I were you, I would be wiring it up and spinning it fast FIRST - before you spend time making precision hardware to mount it.... IIRC the vfd fake encoder input may be way too slow to read it over a couple hundred rpm, but that is just an off the top not researched thought...

[pete from TN]

Mike,
I will try to get the current information to you here in a minute. Right now I am trying to figure out which terminals I hook my braking resistor to and what settings I need to change so that the drive will use it.

Do you think I am okay with the motor driver combo, honestly from the specs of the original motor I should be but I think either we have the PID wrong or this thing really just needs that braking resistor for the Z since the head is not counterweighted...


THanks for responding and appreciate your help. Peace

Pete

[mike_Kilroy]

cnczone acting up; hard to get your thread due to constant reloading over and over and over and over... and over....

I can tell a lot about your parameter settings from the motor current at those speeds no load.... it is worth checking now rather than take chance of smoking the motor. reminds me: did you hook up the motor thermostat? If not, you should do that before you run anymore - it is a simple klixon NC contact...

DB usually just hooks on Hitachis P/+ to RB . dont think you need to set any parameters....

[mike_Kilroy]

oops. b090 default is use 0% of db so set it to 100%

b095 default 01 (use DB) so should be ok....

- - - Updated - - -

oops. b090 default is use 0% of db so set it to 100%

b095 default 01 (use DB) so should be ok....

[pete from TN]

Mike,
Thanks man I got your post but CNCzone is AGAIN acting up....really frustrating this site is. If you can Email me at [email protected]...

[mike_Kilroy]

Question: what is current shown in D002 at a few different speeds? Like 500, 1000, 2000, 5000, 12000rpm?

[pete from TN]

Mike,
Hey man I sent you that information yesterday in an email... I'll resend it again as apparently you did not receive it LOL. Peace

Pete

[pete from TN]

Okay folks a little delayed on the updates but here goes.. . After getting all three axes and the spindle and coolant pumps working recently I was ready to put some fresh coolant into the machine and try to make some chips. Well just as soon as I got the third five gallon bucket poured into the coolant troughs I noticed it pouring out onto the floor. Really bummed out and had to very quickly clean up the mess. This lead to finding hundreds of tiny rust pinholes in the bottoms of the troughs. I then had some decisions to make.

What I settled on was a combination of some serious rust grinding coupled with some careful fig Welding of most of the holes followed by spraying with some stuff that apparently turns rust into primer,then following that with some more sanding. Finally I mixed up about a quart of epoxy resin and lined the bottoms of both troughs and painted it up the sides to hopefully permanently seal up the works. That happened this morning and went quite well. Tomorrow I will be following that up with three coats of some devcon bar rust industrial epoxy paint three coats to seal and protect it from further rust. With any luck at all this should permanent seal and protect my coolant troughs for the foreseeable future.

Hoping to get the painting done tomorrow and do some test runs with water the next day and then I can reinstall them into the machine and get back to the business of this retrofit. Really looking forward to making some chips with the monster here very soon.

Still sorting out the spindle motor setup with the vfd and still need to put a braking resistor on the z axis since there is no counterbalance on it and I should be at a point where I can start running and making test cuts with the machine. This coolant leak issue has been a real ***** but it is almost sorted finally. Peace

Pete

[ihavenofish]

Okay folks a little delayed on the updates but here goes.. . After getting all three axes and the spindle and coolant pumps working recently I was ready to put some fresh coolant into the machine and try to make some chips. Well just as soon as I got the third five gallon bucket poured into the coolant troughs I noticed it pouring out onto the floor. Really bummed out and had to very quickly clean up the mess. This lead to finding hundreds of tiny rust pinholes in the bottoms of the troughs. I then had some decisions to make.

What I settled on was a combination of some serious rust grinding coupled with some careful fig Welding of most of the holes followed by spraying with some stuff that apparently turns rust into primer,then following that with some more sanding. Finally I mixed up about a quart of epoxy resin and lined the bottoms of both troughs and painted it up the sides to hopefully permanently seal up the works. That happened this morning and went quite well. Tomorrow I will be following that up with three coats of some devcon bar rust industrial epoxy paint three coats to seal and protect it from further rust. With any luck at all this should permanent seal and protect my coolant troughs for the foreseeable future.

Hoping to get the painting done tomorrow and do some test runs with water the next day and then I can reinstall them into the machine and get back to the business of this retrofit. Really looking forward to making some chips with the monster here very soon.

Still sorting out the spindle motor setup with the vfd and still need to put a braking resistor on the z axis since there is no counterbalance on it and I should be at a point where I can start running and making test cuts with the machine. This coolant leak issue has been a real ***** but it is almost sorted finally. Peace

Pete

eep. thats what happened with my novakon. didnt realise the tray wasnt sealed well. 5 gallons of coolant on the floor in a steady stream through the 1st milling job. doh!

cool to see you getting everything moving though. gives me hope for mine

[pete from TN]

Yeah man it really sucks watching brand new mixed coolant running out onto the floor and it sucked even more when I realized real quick that I did not have a container large enough to store it in even if I could find a way to suck it up. It wound up going into my bathtub for a day while I found a suitable Rubbermaid container and a pump to suck it out of the tub with. Needless to say the wife was less than amused about it. Oh well I put the first coat of paint on them today and I will be putting another coat on this evening and then another tomorrow morning. With any luck I should be able to put them all back underneath this monster tomorrow evening and be able to fill them the next morning and finally test the coolant pump and start making some chips.....peace

Pete

[Lomach]

Pete

I had the exact same problem on my arrow but i was lucky to see the holes when I was pressure washing them off. I ended up lining the whole inside with fibreglass because the bottom was so pitted. Glad its all coming together though.

Lee

[bill south]

Well Pete!
Looks like there is not one little part of this monster that your not going to have a little tender loving fun with! But, glad nothing has been a show stopper so far! Can't wait to see this monster come alive!!! IT LIVES (soon).
Hang in there and hope the wife lets you back into the house after the bathtub episode!
Bill

[pete from TN]

Lee,
I guess that figures man I am going down much the same road as you with this retrofit. I just hope my end result are as good as yours appear to be. Right now I'd like just five minutes in a room with the penny Pincher at Cincinnati that decided that it would be a grand idea to save a couple bucks by making the troughs out of mild steel instead of stainless. I'd really like to kick his ass right now....

Oh well it was a lot of Tig Welding and grinding to get it fixed and I have about $200.00 in epoxy and paint in it so far so it will be completed soon and with an epoxy resin liner topped with three coats of epoxy industrial paint it should last for ever basically. So I guess it is money well spent.....we shall see soon enough ....peace

Pete

[pete from TN]

Well Pete!
Looks like there is not one little part of this monster that your not going to have a little tender loving fun with! But, glad nothing has been a show stopper so far! Can't wait to see this monster come alive!!! IT LIVES (soon).
Hang in there and hope the wife lets you back into the house after the bathtub episode!
Bill

Bill,
Actually man I was just kidding she was more upset that it leaked and I had another hurdle to overcome with the machine than she was upset about the coolant in the bathtub. It actually didn't hurt anything in there at all and I cleaned it up myself to save face LOL....it is all good man. SOON!! Peace

Pete

[pete from TN]

Okay I am nearly completed painting the coolant troughs, the second coat is nearly dried and I am about to paint on the third and final coat. So basically tomorrow I can put these all back together and probably start refilling it with coolant over the weekend. The epoxy paint is really thick stuff and the mixture does not recommend any changing of the ratios nor does it recommend thinning it at all. Also much to my dismay my plans to spray it on with my nice commercial paint equipment was impossible because it recommends using a mastic spray gun with an .070 tip size. SO I decided to roll it on with some detail rollers. This actually turned out to be a pretty good idea because the areas inside where the pump goes would have been difficult at best to reach with the spray gun even my HVLP cannister pot gun. The rollers on the other hand are easy to reach into tight places and are disposable as this stuff is pretty hard to clean off. It even uses a special kind of thinner which I am probably gonna be able to take back and get my money for it since I only bought it to thin the stuff and to clean whatever gun I used to spray it on with. Now I can just throw away the rollers and the tray and smile...

They are looking really nice and I snapped some pictures to add to my photobucket thread about this build which I am just starting. You can see the troughs epoxied. You can also see what looks like missed rust streaks in the bottoms of the troughs, that is actually NOT rust it is the remains of the spray on rust converter I used to treat the little pinholes I did not tig weld shut to hopefully keep them from rusting further. Then I epoxied the troughs all over the bottom and sides. You can also see how rough I surface prepped the steel with my angle die grinder to ensure a good bond with the epoxy. I am hopeful and relatively confident that between these two processes these troughs will be sealed up real tight for years to come. Anyways, here are some pics in the photobucket link...

Cincinatti Arrow 500 Retrofit Photos by matospeter | Photobucket

Pete

[William7white]

Anyways, here are some pics in the photobucket link...

[LUCKY13]

So glad to you still getting this machine together, quit impressive to say the least. My son is moving to Chattanooga hear soon, you are about halfway between his new place and me. When I make the trip I will look into stopping by and seeing this creation. Good luck and keep it coming, its a long road but when the chips start flying it will be a good feeling to remember what it took.


Jess

[slowlearner]

Pete, I just realized you have been working on this close to a year now. I hope and pray that your efforts pay off with a trouble free machine.
When I get back up that way again I will want to stop by too.
Take care,
Scott