[2muchstuff]

Instead of 2 cyclones in series, I have seen a lid that will fit over a trash can that has an in and out for the hoses. The idea behind this is that the larger pieces fall out before going on. Woodworking stores have these.

[joecnc2006]

Instead of 2 cyclones in series, I have seen a lid that will fit over a trash can that has an in and out for the hoses. The idea behind this is that the larger pieces fall out before going on. Woodworking stores have these.

I will be doing that exact thing, the trashcan then the cyclone then a delta Dust collector, this will eliminate just about everything, and the bags in the delta will Last a very long time.

Here is a sample..

Joe

[ger21]

Joe, if you read Bill's site thoroughly, I believe that you'll lose so much velocity through the trash can and cyclone, that all the fine dust will go right into the dust collector, where the really fine stuff goes right through the bags.

The main purpose of Bills design is to catch ALL the very fine dust with the cyclone, so that practically none even gets to the filters. THis requires a LOT of power to move a LOT of air quickly.

Just my take on what I've read there.

[Madclicker]

I will be doing that exact thing, the trashcan then the cyclone then a delta Dust collector, this will eliminate just about everything, and the bags in the delta will Last a very long time.

Here is a sample..

Joe

You might want to rethink this set-up. The trash can separator won't collect anything that the cyclone wouldn't anyway. All it would contribute here is losses to the airflow which is going to be inadequate anyway with that 1hp, 14" Delta DC. If you do use that Delta you will want to replace your 1.25" hose on your router with at least 2.5" and better yet 4". I have a 2hp 20" DC and I can notice a drop in flow when I reduce from 6" to 4". With a 2.5" hose I can use it like a pretty good shop vac, but with a 1.25" hose it's all but useless.

The biggest thing I've learned since getting my DC is that DC's make OK vacuum's and vacuum's make lousy DC's. Actually, I knew this about vacuum's before...that's why I bought my DC. Dust collection is all about moving air...lots of it. Vacuum's don't move much air and neither do DC's if there is too much restriction.

[joecnc2006]

Yes, i have looked at this and have changed my mind, and also going to build an improved Cyclone in which i have a few ideas on improvements.

Joe

[sdantonio]

Joe,

When you made the first cyclone did you scale it using bill's excel sheet. There is a pretty strict relationship between the diameter of the upper section, the length of the cone and the angle (and internal length) of the intake (at least according to bill, I haven't bothered to look at the physics in depth, but that relationship sounds intuitively right).

When the scaling is done right then the air coming out of the top should me almost completely clean (except for a few really fine particles, hence the last passive filter).

Steven

[joecnc2006]

Joe,

When you made the first cyclone did you scale it using bill's excel sheet. There is a pretty strict relationship between the diameter of the upper section, the length of the cone and the angle (and internal length) of the intake (at least according to bill, I haven't bothered to look at the physics in depth, but that relationship sounds intuitively right).

When the scaling is done right then the air coming out of the top should me almost completely clean (except for a few really fine particles, hence the last passive filter).

Steven

yes i scaled it down .75% but there are still ways to improve it, i know he spent alot of time on his, I am going to try a combination of designs into one unit.

[sdantonio]

Cool, I will wait to see your results.

[ger21]

yes i scaled it down .75% .............

Also, when you scale it down, (make it smaller) you need a bigger motor. The reson is that the smaller diameter reduse the air velocity. Accordin to Bill, you need at least a 3HP motor for an 18"D, even more for a smaller one. You can get away with 1-1/2HP at 22"D.

[Rance]

Well, I might have found a free source of sheet metal available to anyone for making your own full-sized cyclone. I was reading on http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_...earth/me5.html and saw the word 'funnel' and 'water heater skin' in the same sentence. And all the sudden it occurred to me that the skin from a water heater might just do the trick for building a cyclone. Hey, if this works, then the cost comes so close to zero you have almost NO reason to build one of these. Comments anyone? [Except from Gerry on how cheap I am. ]

Edit: And it comes out allready painted too! :banana:

[sdantonio]

One of the things Bill stresses in his site is that the inside should be as smooth as possible to get the best possible cyclonic action. I would question how smooth one of these things are inside considering that is not a large consideration it their construction. But do let us know how it goes when you pick up one from the local dump and strip it apart.

Steven

[JavaDog]

Well, I might have found a free source of sheet metal available to anyone for making your own full-sized cyclone. I was reading on http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_...earth/me5.html and saw the word 'funnel' and 'water heater skin' in the same sentence. And all the sudden it occurred to me that the skin from a water heater might just do the trick for building a cyclone. Hey, if this works, then the cost comes so close to zero you have almost NO reason to build one of these. Comments anyone? [Except from Gerry on how cheap I am. ]

Edit: And it comes out allready painted too! :banana:

Great thinking! There are all different sized water-heaters too.

I wonder if you could just cut a v-slit into the side and bend into a funnel?

[Mr.Chips]

Another source could be old washer, dryer, refrigerator skins. There would be some straightening to do but the surfaces would be smoother than the inside of a water heater.

They probably would not be large enough for the cone, unless they were pieced together, but big enough for everything else without piecing pieces together.

Hager

[JEFFY]

Water skins, may not be what you think it is so look good before you start draging one home. Most water heaters are FOAM insulated(starting in the early 90's) with fiberglass stuffers for blocking the foam from leaking out during filling. Making it a pain to clean up?
You might want to check with your local hvac supplier as most carry it upto about 24"
or bigger in 2,3 or 5 foot lenghts.
Also is you know a heating/sheetmetal contractor ask him if he has any scrap or what it would cost to make up, if you hit them when its there slow time it might be cheaper????

[2muchstuff]

During my travels (scrounging) after work yesterday, I came across a nice piece of spiral wrapped ductwork that would be perfect for the top of a cyclone. Had I wanted to build one, I would have taken it. The spiral duct work has a nice rigidity about it though and the right price- free.

As for the foam problem, spray it with some degreasing solvent, it will melt right off.

[HayTay]

I seem to be missing something pertaining to the amount of airflow (CFM) generated given the HP & RPM of a motor. From what I read, the smaller the cyclone is scaled down the more motor HP is required. Why is that so? I would think that the smaller scale cyclones would require a higher RPM rated motor in order to move a larger quantity of air. Why would a 3 HP/1750 RPM rated motor be better for a smaller cyclone than a 1.5 HP/3000 RPM motor?

I understand that too small of a motor would quickly burn out and fail. We're only moving air and small bits of wood or plastic, though, so I don't see why a 3, 5, or 10 HP rated motor would be required.

Any insight, graphs, charts, video demos, etc. would be appreciated.

HayTay

[Madclicker]

The key is the differences in head loss in the cyclones. Smaller cyclones have more loss. What makes a dust cyclone efficient is it's ability to spin the dust out of the clean air against the inside surfaces of the cyclone. Can't be done well without higher air velocities and volumes.

[Rance]

[Another source could be old washer, dryer, refrigerator skins.]
I would believe that washer/dryer/refrig. skins are simply too thick to work with.

I measured water heater skins I've had access to (currently installed) and one was 21" diameter and the other was 18". And they both had at least a 25" section without access holes.

Rance

[Mr.Chips]

yes i scaled it down .75% but there are still ways to improve it, i know he spent alot of time on his, I am going to try a combination of designs into one unit.

Hello Joe,

A couple of years have gone by and I was wondering how your Cyclone project has worked out.

I know what every you are using it has been tested extensively because of the volume of MDF that you are cutting and fine dust and fine product you are making.

Could you give us a summary of your final design.

Thanks

Hager

[automizer]

I am also wondering
One thing that I have been wondering about is filters.
I have been trying to figure out what to use as filters something I can get local