[garylb]

Hi all,
Joined this forum a few weeks back but this is my first post. I run a machine shop with all Haas machines. I have a minimill, SL10 and a TL2.
The TL2 is just under 1 years old and last week i heard a rattling noise coming from the headstock. As the machine is still within warranty i called in a haas engineer who believes it has a dry spindle bearing and that the spindle will need to be replaced. Has anyone else experienced this as my boss is not very happy that a problem like this has arisen already and we are concerned that it may happen again out of warranty and we will have to foot the bill! Any thoughts or advice on this matter is appreciated! Thanks
Gary

[Geof]

If they are going to fix it under warranty let them go ahead and don't worry. However, I think it is probably not necessary but you don't need to tell them that.

I have had a TL2 in my home workshop for 4 years and when the machine has been idle for several days if it is run above 500 rpm it can make quite a lot of noise, especially if the shop has cooled down to about 10 C or lower.

Shortly after I bought the machine the technician from my Haas dealer came by and did a vibration analysis on the spindle bearings because they had received complaints about noisy machines. He wanted to use my machine as a comparison. At that time he told me his diagnosis was the grease draining to the bottom of a warm bearing and then needing to be re-distributed by running slowly before going to full speed. That sounded logical to me, more logical than a 'dry' bearing (how did it get dry I might ask?)

Rather than repeating myself an further I will refer you to these threads.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/haas_l...e_warm_up.html

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/haas_l...y_spindle.html

[garylb]

I did come across those threads just after i had posted mine. The engineer did say it sounded like a "dry bearing" and that the whole spindle will need to be replaced. I thought the same as you, how would it become dry? A bit worrying since the machine is under a year old as hasnt had much use. Anyway once it has been fitted i will make sure i always run a warmup program before using!

[bat man]

I just encountered the same issue. I have a TL-2 with barely 500 hrs spindle time and the bearing is making noise. How did this finally get resolved?

any advise is appreciated.

-B

[garylb]

I had the haas engineer down and he ran the spindle for about an hour and the noise went so he didnt change the spindle. It was fine after that and all summer but as soon as it started getting cold again at the end of last year the same thing happened again. I ran the warm up program which only goes up to 1200rpm and kept the spindle running for a couple of hours but the noise just wouldnt go. The next day i ran the warm up program and then ran it at full speed (2000rpm) for about half an hour and the noise has gone and is still fine now but im sure it will happen again the start of next winter!

[Geof]

.....the noise has gone and is still fine now but im sure it will happen again the start of next winter!

If it is cold in your shop and you are not using the machine for a while just run your warm up program every day. If you don't want to hang around to turn the main power off change Setting 2 to ON and the machine will turn itself off at the end of the cycle.

[garylb]

If it is cold in your shop and you are not using the machine for a while just run your warm up program every day. If you don't want to hang around to turn the main power off change Setting 2 to ON and the machine will turn itself off at the end of the cycle.

good idea, i wasnt even aware of this setting

[KenFoulks]

You can also use M95.

M95 Sleep Mode
Sleep mode is essentially a long dwell (pause). Sleep mode can be used when the user wants the machine to begin warming itself up so it can be ready for use upon the operator’s arrival. The format of the M95 command is: M95 (hh:mm)
The comment immediately following the M95 must contain the hours and minutes that the machine is to sleep for. For example, if the current time were 6 p.m. and the user wanted the machine to sleep until 6:30 a.m. the next day, the following command would be used:
M95 (12:30)
The line(s) following the M95 should be axis moves and spindle warm-up commands.

[Geof]

A problem with Sleep is that air pressure has to be maintained on the machine. And in my experience all air systems leak so that means a compressor has to be cycling wasting electricity.

If the machines could automatically cancel a low air pressure alarm as soon as the air pressure came up, without activating Reset, then a compressor could be programmed to come on just before the machine woke up.

[bat man]

Geof and all.

I really appreciate all the advice. I lubricated the front spindle bearing with fresh grease and ran the machine through a warmup and some time at 1800rpm, and guess what, THE NOISE IS GONE. :cheers: I'm a happy TL-2 owner once again. I still believe Haas needs to acknowledge this design flaw, but in the mean time, I will continue making parts.

Cheers
-B

[DEAN]

I have this noise on my TL-1. I just came here this morning to ask about my problem.
How did you grease that front bearing? Is it right behind that front black ring or buried further?
I was tempted to remove that black ring mounted to the head casting. The one that circles the A2-5 spindle body. I wasn't sure if I could safely remove that ring and peek in there without disturbing something. I was hoping to see a rubber sealed bearing I could pop the seal off and lube. ?

resolved: All fixed. thanks to Batman indicating that the front black ring is just a cover and there is a OPEN bearing in there. I packed a little grease into the bearing and its all fixed.

[LeWhite]

Need more info on pulling black ring. Whats behind the ring an open bearing? , what type , pre load, how to pull it, what to pack with, how to seal and align?

[bat man]

Hello LeWhite,

As I mentioned before, don't fear taking off the ring surrounding the spindle, I believe it is more of a chip protecting ring than anything else. Once you take it off, you will see the open bearing that likely needs grease. Pack it with the best quality grease you can get your hands on. Close is all back up and run the machine through some warm up cycles. For this I ran my lathe for 30min at 500 rpm, then at 1200 rpm for 15 min. Have yet to hear the noise since. OK maybe I'm lucky, but sometimes it's better to be lucky than smart.

Good luck

-Batman

[LeWhite]

Yup spindle at about 500 /600 hrs started to make this random screechkreechkik noise . The noise didnt sound like the spindle exactly but kinda outside of the spindle and I looked at the encoder belt and shaft for the same noise. Wasnt that. And the noise kept getting worse by the day. After pulling the black ring the bearings didnt look too dry but lube them, I did. From the looks of things the nose bearing would have to be double row. It needed a hypodermick needle to get to the rear bearing. I also noticed some case paint on the mounting surface that could prevent the ring from sitting flat on the headstock. Whud du ya no the labrenth seal of the ring was transfering metal to the spindle. Lubed the back bearing with the needle and ran it up to 500 rpm with no ring Quiet as a church mouse

[LeWhite]

DP

[LeWhite]

Doubt it was a dry bearing prolly black ring rubbing the spindle. Sanded the labryenth seal down a little. G03 and G04 800rpm for 45 min and all good. Thanks guys.

[Geof]

Doubt it was a dry bearing prolly black ring rubbing the spindle......

That is an interesting suggestion. This could account for the noise being greater at low temperatures and abating after the machine had run for a while heating the ring until it expanded enough to no longer be in contact.


Incidentally it is not a labyrinth seal, well certainly not a true labyrinth seal as described correctly here: Labyrinth seal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia