[leeroy]

G'day all..

I've started a new job with a company that has three Haas Vf-2's. I've had a little expereince with HAAS controls before, enough to get me going anyway... But i'm becoming more and more fustrated with the way HAAS handles setting work work co-ordinates, and tool setup.
Let me state right off the bat that this is not a HAAS ***** session, but more of a explanation of the perceived problems in the hope that you more experience guys (or the HASS engineers that visit here) can offer some solutions..

Fisrtly why dosn't HASS let me jog arround and set Work coordinates directly? (ie g54-g59 etc). It seams that i have to set the co-ordinates twice, once in the "operator" jog and then again to set what ever work co-ordinate i want to use.

When setting the "operator" co-ordinates why can't i set them to a preset value, instead of zero when i press "origin". All this lifting and moving over half the edge finder dia is driving me nuts. This is then compounded when i want to find the center of the part, having to touch one side, set to zero, move to the other side, touch off, take note of the readout, do a manual calculation on a hand calculator then jog over to the required 1/2 distance and press "origin" again. This seams very convoluted and error prone to me. In fact it has caught me out several times now, making a mistake somewhere in the above process. For the love of God, where is the 1/2 button???

Once i've set the "operator" co-ordinates i then need to jog them to x0,y0 and go into the offsets page and press "part zero set" on the work offset i want to use. These can only, it seams, be set to zero..
So what happens if the 0,0 datum of my part (and program) are outside the machine travel limits and i can't phisicly jog the machine to 0,0 to set them??

Setting the tools seams equaly inefficiant.. To set one tool i need to be in three seperate modes. "edit" to read what tool and number i need to set, then "MDI" to bring the tool to the spindle and then finialy "offsets" then "handle Jog" and "offsets again.. Sheesh! Why not have just one "tool set" mode where too changes (ie T1, "ATC FWD") are active, handle jog is active and the Manual tool release button is active. Again tool setting is a drawn out convluted process involving a whole heap of unnessasary butting pushes and mode changes.

Ok so with that off my chest, there is also a few things that i love about HAAS control..

M97 local subroutines
Awsome not haveing to background edit two seperate programs, time saved..

Being able to put an "L#" on any line of G code to repeat that line # number of times. This is just freaking fantastic. As an ISO programmer this saves sooo much time, love it!

All in all i do like woking these machines, with the exception of the above issues.. If anyone has any tips or tricks , i love to hear it..

Cheers
Leeroy

[Machineit]

Setting the tools seams equaly inefficiant.. To set one tool i need to be in three seperate modes. "edit" to read what tool and number i need to set, then "MDI" to bring the tool to the spindle and then finialy "offsets" then "handle Jog" and "offsets again.. Sheesh! Why not have just one "tool set" mode where too changes (ie T1, "ATC FWD") are active, handle jog is active and the Manual tool release button is active. Again tool setting is a drawn out convluted process involving a whole heap of unnessasary butting pushes and mode changes.

Leeroy

From what I see most of your problems stem from not knowing how to use your machines. I don't know if you received any training or not, but you really need some.

For example the tool setting. Of course you need to put your first tool in the spindle, common sense and then jog the tool down to the part. Then just go to the tool offset page and hit the tool offset set button. From there all you have to do is push the next tool button, "right next to the offset button" and simply jog back down to the part. The Haas automatically changes to the next tool and puts you back into jog at .01 and you are ready to go again. If you don't have probing---what could be easier? Once you touch off the first tool, you never change modes until you are finished with all of the tools, 20 if need be on most machines.

As for you part zero and such, if you know your location just enter it in the offset page by typing in the value and hitting F1, that's it. If you touch off on an edge and know your zero is exactly 2.1 inches from there, just go to the offset page, hit enter, then ad the 2.1 inches by typing the value + or - and hitting write. That adds it to what ever your position is.

Get some lessons from someone who really knows the machines. And, don't bring prejudices from other controls with you, that will make it harder. The Haas is a great control, user friendly to the max.

Enjoy the machines.

[leeroy]

Then just go to the tool offset page and hit the tool offset set button. From there all you have to do is push the next tool button, "right next to the offset button" and simply jog back down to the part. The Haas automatically changes to the next tool and puts you back into jog at .01 and you are ready to go again. If you don't have probing---what could be easier? Once you touch off the first tool, you never change modes until you are finished with all of the tools, 20 if need be on most machines.

Hi Machineit
Thanks for the reply.

Yes i know about the "next tool" button and i do use it where possable. Where it falls down is when you want to set non sequential tools. The company uses a set tool library and most of the time programs use tools that are all over the pockets, ie tool 1, 3,4,6,9,14,17 etc.
Just being able to use "T#, ATC FWD" instead of "next tool" in the offsets page would be a great help.

You are right though these are user freindly machines but they could be even better. Like i said it's not a winge about HAAS controls, just trying to understand and make things easier and less prone to mistakes..

Cheers
Leeroy

[txcncman]

I highly advise you quit re-setting all used tools on top of part and start setting all tools on a known reference point (i.e. 1-2-3 block on top of the table) and then using the difference in height from that reference point to the top of part in the work offset Z values.

[haastec]

Hi Machineit
Thanks for the reply.

Yes i know about the "next tool" button and i do use it where possable. Where it falls down is when you want to set non sequential tools. The company uses a set tool library and most of the time programs use tools that are all over the pockets, ie tool 1, 3,4,6,9,14,17 etc.
Just being able to use "T#, ATC FWD" instead of "next tool" in the offsets page would be a great help.


Cheers
Leeroy

You can do this. When in either MDI mode or JOG mode, just type in T# and press either ATC FWD or ATC REV and it will change to that tool.

Also, be aware that you can change the display screen while still in those modes. For example, you can be in JOG mode and switch the screen display to show prog, pos, offset, curr cmds, settings, etc, etc. all while remaining in JOG mode. Look at the top of the screen; it will show both the display screen name and also the mode name.

The mode buttons for JOG, MDI, MEM, EDIT, etc all have default screens, but once you select a mode, you can still change the display without changing modes.

I hope that makes sense and helps.

[KenFoulks]

leeroy,
Please provide the process that you are used to and which machine you find allows that process. I am always interested in people's experiences switching to Haas. At 1200 machines per month, we are going to be seeing this more and more. Maybe some documents specific to manufacturer for re-training would be helpful.

[haastec]

The way I am interpreting his questions, he should be able to do all of what he is asking or finds frustrating in the OP.

I think he just needs a little more familiarity with the control and a little direction on navigating the screens.

Ken,

Any new operator training videos available that might be helpful to him?

[WallyL7]

To the OP

Do you have a manual for the machines? If you do...sleep with it under your pillow. There is all of this info inside them and they are very understandable. (IOW - read the manual)

If you don't have one, just download it from the Haas website.

Also, google "haas tips and tricks" or similar. You will find strings here as well as other sites that have listed all the semi-unknown things that these controls will do.

These controls are so far superior to doing things on a Fanuc I can't even begin to go into it here.


"these are user freindly machines but they could be even better".....I think you just need to get better with them. Since they already have the machines, isn't there anyone there that knows them?

[gizmo_454]

There is another option. Contact your local HFO and see about signing up for a "mill operator" class. They are normally free, at the HFO. Usually 4 to 5 hours long. They are quite helpful in helping to learn to use the control. The only difficulty you may have is Haas changed the software in the control a couple of years ago and may not teach the old software anymore. Still, it's a thought.

Mike

[txcncman]

I just had a 1 hour refresher course on Haas mill 2 weeks ago. The control is not so much different, in my opinion, until you get to probing. Even then, 2 hours after the refresher, I had a 3 tool job up and running. Even switching screens is not so bad once you learn to look for the prompts, as on work offsets, pressing the right or left arrow keys to get to probing.

I like the idea of sleeping with the manual under the pillow. I am going to try it and see if it will tell me how to write custom macros to use the probe for SPC output.

[jeffrey001]

I like the idea of sleeping with the manual under the pillow.

Yes, and wait for the fairy tail to learn programing macro:cheers::cheers:


Jeff

[KenFoulks]

Ken,

Any new operator training videos available that might be helpful to him?

Sadly, there is not a video at this time. I believe the TM addendum has a good intro for manual machinists that may help. Haas Technical Forum: Manual Updates | Haas Automation, Inc. | CNC Machine Tools

[cygnus x-1]

You can do this. When in either MDI mode or JOG mode, just type in T# and press either ATC FWD or ATC REV and it will change to that tool.

My old-ish TM-1 does not allow direct tool selection in jog mode.
When I try it it says "wrong mode". Is there a setting for it maybe? I don't recall seeing one.

I only have 10 tools so it's not a big deal, just kind of annoying.


C|

[leeroy]

leeroy,
Please provide the process that you are used to and which machine you find allows that process. I am always interested in people's experiences switching to Haas. At 1200 machines per month, we are going to be seeing this more and more. Maybe some documents specific to manufacturer for re-training would be helpful.

G'day Ken

The machine that i have spent the last 5 years running was an Extron 4 axis machining center. I can't remember the model, infact i don't think we ever knew what model it was. But it was a relativly new machine, made in 2002. It was fitted with a Itri Mirl M2000 fanuc based Control.. I have tried googleing this control for any information but i couldn't find anything. Perhaps you may have access to better information.
At any rate i will try and explain how work offsets were handled in this control. It had a similar page to the HAAS Offsets page with all the offsets listed ie G54-G59. It also had another data entry page which had a drop down box to select which work offset to use (ie G54 etc) once you selected the work offset you wanted it updated the current readout position for that offset in the readout window within this page. It also showed the machine coordinates as well.
This page also contained 4 feilds X,Y,Z,A, in which you could load a preset value. If you loaded say -5.(mm) in the X field, when you pushed "Set X" button the current work offset (in this case G54) X position would be set to -5. This was ideal for use with the edge finder as it ment you didn't have to lift and move over 1/2 the dia. This was also usefull for setting any geometry of the part to any co-ordinate position you liked without phisicly haveing to jog there..
If you wanted to find the X center of the part, you set the X preset field to zero, touched one edge, pressed "SET X", move to the other edge, touch off and press the "1/2 X" button, the X axis offset value would then be halved, effectivly putting you zero in the center of the part.

It was so simple and required no hand calculation or joging back to the center.

Cheers
Leeroy

[haastec]

leeroy,

Did any of the suggestions offered help any or make sense?

[KenFoulks]

)This page also contained 4 feilds X,Y,Z,A, in which you could load a preset value. If you loaded say -5.(mm) in the X field, when you pushed "Set X" button the current work offset (in this case G54) X position would be set to -5. This was ideal for use with the edge finder as it ment you didn't have to lift and move over 1/2 the dia. This was also usefull for setting any geometry of the part to any co-ordinate position you liked without phisicly haveing to jog there..
If you wanted to find the X center of the part, you set the X preset field to zero, touched one edge, pressed "SET X", move to the other edge, touch off and press the "1/2 X" button, the X axis offset value would then be halved, effectively putting you zero in the center of the part.

The Haas can do both of these fairly similarly. For the first one, use F1 to set any value to a coordinate system. For the second, use origin on the operator's coordinate system as a zero point for the first side. Jog over to the second point and just cut the value in half and use the F1 key.

[leeroy]

Thank you to everyone who has replied.. :cheers:

Today i had some time to have a play with the machine and run through some of the sudgestions made here.

The tool setup issue has mostly been sorted out with the exception that for some reason the tool change won't work in jog mode. Is there a setting that allows this? If i could get the machine to change tools (by a T#, ATC FWD) in Jog mode that would solve it completly. :-)

As for the work offsets, i did try some of the sudgested methods but it seams that i am back where i started. I managed to get it to set a value other than zero on the operator jog to try and negate lifting and moving when using an edg finder. It does work but then you need to lift and jog back to zero anyway in order to set the G54 work offset, which kinda defeats the purpose.. In fact any time when using the operator jog you must jog back to X0,Y0 to then set the work offsets.
I also played arround with setting the work offsets directly in the offsets page. Again it does work, but you are effectivly working in machine coordinates, not work coordinates. The readout down the right hand side of the screen does show the current work offset position but it does not update when you make a change to the offset it's self (Ie add or subtract from it), you must press reset to update the readout. This of course stops the spindle and it must then be restarted. It does update if you just press "part zero set". :drowning:

I guess at the end of the day i'm just going to have to suck it up, stick with what i know will work, and get on with it..

Thanks again

Cheers
Leeroy

[txcncman]

How hard is it to press "MDI" then "ATC FWD"? I mean really? Really?

[leeroy]

How hard is it to press "MDI" then "ATC FWD"? I mean really? Really?

You forgot to add "handle jog" and then "Offsets" again to get back to where you started..:stickpoke
But i guess thats a fair comment.. Mabe "Issue" is too strong a word. Perhaps "niggle" is better suited.
Still, it's the little things that make the difference between a good control and a great one.

Cheers
Leeroy

[haastec]

Thank you to everyone who has replied.. :cheers:

Today i had some time to have a play with the machine and run through some of the sudgestions made here.

The tool setup issue has mostly been sorted out with the exception that for some reason the tool change won't work in jog mode. Is there a setting that allows this? If i could get the machine to change tools (by a T#, ATC FWD) in Jog mode that would solve it completly. :-)

As for the work offsets, i did try some of the sudgested methods but it seams that i am back where i started. I managed to get it to set a value other than zero on the operator jog to try and negate lifting and moving when using an edg finder. It does work but then you need to lift and jog back to zero anyway in order to set the G54 work offset, which kinda defeats the purpose.. In fact any time when using the operator jog you must jog back to X0,Y0 to then set the work offsets.
I also played arround with setting the work offsets directly in the offsets page. Again it does work, but you are effectivly working in machine coordinates, not work coordinates. The readout down the right hand side of the screen does show the current work offset position but it does not update when you make a change to the offset it's self (Ie add or subtract from it), you must press reset to update the readout. This of course stops the spindle and it must then be restarted. It does update if you just press "part zero set". :drowning:

I guess at the end of the day i'm just going to have to suck it up, stick with what i know will work, and get on with it..

Thanks again

Cheers
Leeroy

Give it some time as I am sure you will figure more things out and it will become easier.