[rdoty]

I'm going to interject another comment since I'm still having issues comprehending this R0 thing.

The Fadal manual clearly states "The I plane is the last Z position before the cycle line." That I understand.

Then the manual states "The R0 plane is the plane where the tool will begin to feed into the material. This location must be below or equal to the I plane". It also defines R0 as "the minimum clearance plane". (Smid calls it "Rapid to start point". It seems to me that R0 can be established such that the tool rapidly retracts to any Z position as long as it isn't above the I plane. Right? Even the crude sketch in the manual shows it above the work surface, not what I would call "begin to feed into the material". I know I may be splitting hairs here but I tend to take things very literally.

Now to the big issue with a hypothetical example:

I have a part clamped in my vise. The top surface is 0.50 above the vise jaws. All of my tool offsets were set relative to the top of the vise jaws. My understanding is that if I command Z to go to 1.0 the tool will stop 1.0 above the vise jaws and 0.5 above the work surface. Right? If I then command Z to feed to 0.2 the tool will then drill 0.3 into the part.
So I could program:

H17 Z1.0 M8
G99 G81 R0+0.2 Z0.365 F12. X0.75 Y-0.5 E1

Now, in the Fadal manual the sketches all show R0 being relative to "Z final depth". (Somewhere I also came across the statement that R0 is measured from Z final depth).
In the case above the tool would have drilled into the part 0.135 (0.5 - 0.365) and by Fadal's "definition" the tool would then have rapid retracted to 0.065 above the work surface [(0.2 + 0.365)-0.5] but still 0.435 below the I plane.

By all the definitions this seems logical but I get an error that either R or Z is wrong.

If I look at the cycle the G99 indicates "rapid retract to R level" so I decided to try G98 which means "rapid retract to initial level" but if I change to G98, assuming that any R0 is ignored, I still get the error.

Someone please tell me where the problem is. because I'm about to go postal here!

[Delw]

I use this every day with out any problems, you will have problems ie errors if the z1.0 in the first line is smaller than the r value in the second line

G43 Z1.0 H18 M08
G98 G83 Z-0.675 R0.1 Q0.1 F15.


what this does is rapids to 1" then rapids down to .1 before canned cycle , when canned cycle is finished it stops at .1, then rapids back to Z1.0 before changing location in x and y for next drill cycle.


you can have the 1st Z ie postition and the R the same, however you cant have the R larger than the Z move in the line above.


Hope that makes sence.
Delw

[Delw]

oops


the reason your problem is giving errors is due to this"

H17 Z1.0 M8
G99 G81 R0+0.2 Z0.365 F12. X0.75 Y-0.5 E1

its bigger than the R move. I am guessing you forgot a - sign

[Delw]

one more thing, get in the habit of writing your code this way, mainly the first few lines 528 -532 always have the "E" number in the 1st line
on a fadal you also have to position the 1st hole before execution of the drill cycle other wise it will skip the hole. like the example below it positions at x0y0 however it doesnt drill a hole till X0.3 Y-0.5.

N527 M6 T17 ( 0.375 DIA. SPOT DRILL )
N528 G0 G17 G40 G80 G90 E11
N529 M3 M8 S8500
N530 X0.0 Y0.0
N531G8
N532 Z0.1 H17
N533 G98 G82 Z-0.15 R+0.1 F15.0
N534 X0.3 Y-0.5
N535 X6.7
N536 Y-2.5
N537 X0.3
N538 G80 G40 M5 M9
N539G9
N540G49 Z0.0
N541M01

every one of my machines and tools start with these lines, non fadal machine dont get E numbers.. reason I always start the machines the same is it keeps everything simple.

N527 M6 T17 ( 0.375 DIA. SPOT DRILL )
N528 G0 G17 G40 G80 G90 E11
N529 M3 M8 S8500

[daking]

I'm going to interject another comment since I'm still having issues comprehending this R0 thing.

The Fadal manual clearly states "The I plane is the last Z position before the cycle line." That I understand.

Then the manual states "The R0 plane is the plane where the tool will begin to feed into the material. This location must be below or equal to the I plane". It also defines R0 as "the minimum clearance plane". (Smid calls it "Rapid to start point". It seems to me that R0 can be established such that the tool rapidly retracts to any Z position as long as it isn't above the I plane. Right? Even the crude sketch in the manual shows it above the work surface, not what I would call "begin to feed into the material". I know I may be splitting hairs here but I tend to take things very literally.

Now to the big issue with a hypothetical example:

I have a part clamped in my vise. The top surface is 0.50 above the vise jaws. All of my tool offsets were set relative to the top of the vise jaws. My understanding is that if I command Z to go to 1.0 the tool will stop 1.0 above the vise jaws and 0.5 above the work surface. Right? If I then command Z to feed to 0.2 the tool will then drill 0.3 into the part.
So I could program:

H17 Z1.0 M8
G99 G81 R0+0.2 Z0.365 F12. X0.75 Y-0.5 E1

Now, in the Fadal manual the sketches all show R0 being relative to "Z final depth". (Somewhere I also came across the statement that R0 is measured from Z final depth).
In the case above the tool would have drilled into the part 0.135 (0.5 - 0.365) and by Fadal's "definition" the tool would then have rapid retracted to 0.065 above the work surface [(0.2 + 0.365)-0.5] but still 0.435 below the I plane.

By all the definitions this seems logical but I get an error that either R or Z is wrong.

If I look at the cycle the G99 indicates "rapid retract to R level" so I decided to try G98 which means "rapid retract to initial level" but if I change to G98, assuming that any R0 is ignored, I still get the error.

Someone please tell me where the problem is. because I'm about to go postal here!

With your above example if you want to drill .3 into the part your program line should look something like this:

H17 Z1.0 M8
G99 G81 R0+0.55 Z0.2 F12. X0.75 Y-0.5 E1

R0+.55 will rapid to .05 above the part(you can make this whatever you are comfortable with) and it will feed to Z.2 which is your .3 depth. The G99 will retract back to .05 above the part. G98 would retract to .5 above the part or the initial plane.

"R0 being relative to "Z final depth". "This is incorrect. R0 is relative to Z0


Hope this helps

[Delw]

I never read the manual, never had too.

right now your program doesnt work. so change the r to a bigger number than the z and try it.
the "R" number is how high above the part top you want the tool to sit before drilling.
if the top of you part is .5 then r.5 would touch you part r0.55 would be .050 above the top of your part.

My examples were just that using z0 as part top they had no reference to your part what so ever.

now having said all that get your calculator out and do the math.

R must be ABOVE the hole your drilling in your part. however deep you want is up to you but you cant drill ABOVE your PART ZERO as you will just crash.

Delw

[David Ferguson]

I agree with Delw's comments. Since your part top is at Z=.5, I would change your code from:

H17 Z1.0 M8
G99 G81 R0+0.2 Z0.365 F12. X0.75 Y-0.5 E1

To

H17 Z1.0 M8
G99 G81 R0+0.7 Z0.365 F12. X0.75 Y-0.5 E1

[rdoty]

Some responses:

delw..re "writing code this way"...I do, I just omitted it because I'm only interested in addressing the R0 issue.

Also, I didn't forget a (-) sign...if you read the original post I'm working on a surface 0.5 above the jaws hence commanding a Z move to 0.365 I'm commanding the tool to stop 0.365 above the vise jaws (0.135 deep into part). Z0 is at the top of the jaws, not the top of the part.

Also, Z1.0 in the first line is NOT smaller than R0 in the second line (Z = 1.0 vs R = 0.2)

delw and daking - EVERY description, both in Fadal manual and Smid text, R0 begins at Z depth, which can be anywhere relative to Z0.

Understand I am not saying your suggestions are wrong, but I'm following the Fadal and Smid directions to the letter and getting bad results.

To summarize:

I command Z to 1.0 = 1.0 above Z0
I command Z to 0.365 = 0.365 above Z0
I command R0+0.2 = =.565 above Z0

I apologize for belaboring this issue but if it confuses the hell out of me. I will try some of the suggestions and hope they work.

Anyway, thanks for all the imput.

[DareBee]

It seems to me that if you would envision R0 as an absolute value then your line of thinking is correct.
Sure R0 is incrementally .2 above Z depth but it is also absolutely .565 above Z0.
Your G98 didnt work because of the bad R0 value as well - yes the control will not run the R0 when G98 is used BUT it still reads it as invalid. If the R0 number was correct or wasa completely removed, it would have worked

[Techman]

As long as you are programming in G90 mode:

R0 is an absolute value. It has to be greater than "Z"
Z is an absolute value. It has to be smaller or deeper than "R0"

If "Z" zero is the top of your vise and your part top is .5 above the top of your vise then-

R0+.6 (machine will rapid to .1 above your part)
Z.365 (will drill .135 into your part.)

One last thing- A M45 coded with your drill call out will force execution without an X or Y word.

Hope this helps!
Techman

[Delw]

rdoty
I suggested the way I did, cause you are obviously new at programming or running a fadal. I run them daily.
I didnt answer the question drectly related to the books. because to be honest. I dont look at them unless I absolutely have too.
you said you were pulling your hair out on this so I gave you a way to fix the problem immediatly, to get your job running, after your job is finished thats when you play and ask questions for problems.

the reason I gave you the above complete code and made the suggestion of using it . was again cause your new. if you get into the habit of writing code this way you wont have problems at a later date with another tool. plus you can copy and paste a tool and just modify canned cycles etc etc with out forgetting to put in position offsets, coolant spindle speeds tool offsets etc etc.
sure you can write code smaller but then why when Fadal has a copy and paste method? plus smaller code tends to leave lots of people making mistakes that lead into crashs.

Delw

[David Ferguson]

I just looked at the manual -- I think the arrows you see aren't about relative values, but about movement of the tool tip -- so the solid arrow from Z Final Depth to R Plane represent a rapid movement, not relative coordinates.

I think that's your confusion.

Note that R0 can be specified in absolute coordinates if G90 (Absolute Input) is active, or relative to the last Z coordinate (which would be your I plane) if G91 (Incremental Input) is active.

[SBC Cycle]

Just a note: See section 4.7 of the manual about the different ways a fixed cycle is executed if Format 1 or 2 is in effect.

Long story short, in Format 2 you better be above the spot you want to drill at because it's going to put a hole wherever you are the moment the fixed cycle is executed (no positioning move required). The only exception to this is if you define the first hole location in the same line as the fixed cycle. This is what I consider safe or "explicit" programming. I always do this, even if it is slightly redundant in Format 2.

The R0 confusion I don't get. From the manual:

4.8.8 R PLANE:

R0 +/- # This represents the location of the R plane (or minimum clearance plane). The R plane is where the tool will begin to feed into the material. This location must be below or equal to the I plane.

In the absolute mode (G90), the value for this location is relative to Z zero. In the incremental mode (G91), the value for this location is relative to the I plane. The R0 value in the incremental mode can never be a positive value.

That's fairly straightforward.