[poster]

The reason i ask is we are looking at the floppy drive to usb adapter that milltronics sells. With this you are limited to 1.44MB. This would be easier for us then networking, but using CAM software will 1.44MB be a limiting factor? Its a 4 axis RH

[txcncman]

There is no "normal" size for a program. Usually program size is limited by your machine's available memory. Many modern machines can handle programs in excess of 1000kb (1 mb). Unless you are making extremely complicated parts with 3D surfacing, having programs in excess of 1000kb is rare. In this case, a 1.44mb (1.38mb usable) floppy drive would work fine. But, thinking for the future, floppy drives are not as reliable. What happens if you get into making parts with a lot of 3D surfacing? Why limit yourself now and have to change later?

[poster]

There is no "normal" size for a program. Usually program size is limited by your machine's available memory. Many modern machines can handle programs in excess of 1000kb (1 mb). Unless you are making extremely complicated parts with 3D surfacing, having programs in excess of 1000kb is rare. In this case, a 1.44mb (1.38mb usable) floppy drive would work fine. But, thinking for the future, floppy drives are not as reliable. What happens if you get into making parts with a lot of 3D surfacing? Why limit yourself now and have to change later?

I realize floppys aren't reliable and also hard to source but what i meant is the floppy drive that is already there would be taken out and a drive put back in its place that uses a usb stick. The only issue is you need to format the flash drive to some spec, then the max capacity is only 1.44MB for the flash drive. The unit is around $500, but its plug and play. For me to network i would be at least 100' away and it could get complicated. If 1KB can hold a lot of information then this could be an easy solution for us. I just had no idea what a typical CNC program size is, but now i do.

[txcncman]

Ok. I guess I misunderstood and gave too much information. Now that I understand better, I will warn you that some machines equipped with external memory devices are limited on what they will read. For example, so Haas machines will only read usb drives with 512 mb or less. Some machines with Fanuc controls will only read 2 gb or less.

[moldcore]

My guess is that your computer doesn’t have a floppy and you’re looking at a way to get from the computer to the machine other than networking? Just get a USB external floppy drive for the computer for less than $30. If the limit is only going to be 1.44 MB then I would just stay with the floppy if the machine already has one. We do 3D molds and 95% of the files are under 1.44MB. If they get bigger we either break them up or DNC. I would upgrade the controller before spending $500 on the floppy to USB converter. Most (99%) 2D programs are under 100K that we generate with Surfcam.

[poster]

My computer does have a floppy drive (special order now a days), its just getting to the point where the floppy disks themselves are hard to find and 10% of them don't work out of the box. Also we use floppys on our plasma table. The disks get mixed up and the ones from the welding side can get dirty pretty easily. I have gone through a few drives over the years. Magnets, fine steel particles and electronics don't mix very well it seems. I thought the removal of moving parts of the floppy and going to a flash drive would be nice, but maybe I'll get the costs of networking figured out first.

[underthetire]

We just ran a 28 mb program, lots of surfacing. We just bought wireless network adapters for the newer machines, wireless rs232 for the older stuff, havnt hooked it up yet. We are fortunate on the new machines, since they have 1gb memory storage.

[jpawelk]

You are able to check the existing file sizes on the Milltronics control. When you are in the program menu, press F6(TOGGLE). This will show you the file sizes. A conversational program typically is small in size. A cam generated program is much larger in size. A 1mb program is very small, I have seen 60-80MB programs.
A side note, what control does your machine have? Milltronics offers a mulit-format card reader option that does NOT restric you on file size.

[poster]

its a centurion 7. You mean like a SD card type reader?

[moldcore]

I would think with a Centurion 7 you could replace the floppy drive with one of these without a problem for less than $20:
Newegg.com - Rosewill RCR-IC002 74-in-1 USB 2.0 3.5" Internal Card Reader w/ USB port / Extra silver face plate

[franchcnc]

I know several Milltronics users that use this USb-Floppy emulator.

Floppy to USB disk drive upgrade

[jpawelk]

its a centurion 7. You mean like a SD card type reader?

Exactly! The multi-format card reader gives you the ability to use a SD card, mini-SD card, memory stick, and compact flash card. Your choice with no limitations on file size. The installation of the card reader would be super easy. This would not replace the floppy, it would be an addition.

[sportybob]

The problem with using a standard USB device, like the one Moldcore suggested is that the Milltronics controls C5, C6 and C7 (8200 series uses Linux) use MS DOS 3.2 to 6.22 and there is not a standard DOS driver available that works in DOS. So even if you had a motherboard that had a USB port, DOS will not recognize it.

To use the "multi fuction " "smart media" drive sugusted by Jpawelk is a viable option as it used the IDE port, You would need a hard drive or a SBC control update to run the drivers from. As you have a C7 control, no problem, buy the kit load the drivers and all is well.

The "USB emulator" as shown by FranchCNC, is just that an emulator. It makes the USB thumb drive look and act like a 1.44MB floppy. It must be formated as 1.44MB floppy with FAT 16. (not sure if it can be done in WIN7)
IMO If useing the conversational programming, its OK. a really large conversational program is maybe 2-3 KB (The conversatioal programing is some really tight written code)

If programming using any of the CAD/CAM software the files can get really HUGE, I have seen 100MB + programs, in this case, use of the Multifuction drive or networking is for now, the best solutions.

Look at what your files sizes are, If they CAD/CAM and under 1.44MB then the emulator is OK. If they are larger then my choice for now is networking.

Sportybob

[moldcore]

The problem with using a standard USB device, like the one Moldcore suggested is that the Milltronics controls C5, C6 and C7 (8200 series uses Linux) use MS DOS 3.2 to 6.22 and there is not a standard DOS driver available that works in DOS. So even if you had a motherboard that had a USB port, DOS will not recognize it.

To use the "multi fuction " "smart media" drive sugusted by Jpawelk is a viable option as it used the IDE port, You would need a hard drive or a SBC control update to run the drivers from. As you have a C7 control, no problem, buy the kit load the drivers and all is well.

The "USB emulator" as shown by FranchCNC, is just that an emulator. It makes the USB thumb drive look and act like a 1.44MB floppy. It must be formated as 1.44MB floppy with FAT 16. (not sure if it can be done in WIN7)
IMO If useing the conversational programming, its OK. a really large conversational program is maybe 2-3 KB (The conversatioal programing is some really tight written code)

If programming using any of the CAD/CAM software the files can get really HUGE, I have seen 100MB + programs, in this case, use of the Multifuction drive or networking is for now, the best solutions.

Look at what your files sizes are, If they CAD/CAM and under 1.44MB then the emulator is OK. If they are larger then my choice for now is networking.

Sportybob

So how did they get around the 1.44MB limitation on the machines that have the ZIP drives or 3M SuperDisk like mine? I can’t use my 120MB SuperDisks anymore because my newer computer won’t support it. So now I’m stuck with the 1.44MB floppy. Still looking for an alternative other than the slow RS232 cable for the large files.

[sportybob]

Moldcore. They use a IDE drive port for the Superdisk, Zip drive and C-Flash drives. Using the IDE port is like adding a hard drive. using a Slave / Master configuration.
USB is a serial port, like the older 9 pin (DB-9) connectors that used to be on oler PC's They (MS, Intel etc) just updated the standard to a newer type of port (USB). The serial port is controled by Bios, controller and the hardware on the motherboard. Older motherboards and bios do not support USB as it was not yet invented. DOS does not have support for USB for the same reason. You start to find MS USB support starting in Win 95 but does not really work for all things USB untill Win 98SE.
The problem with running Windows is the large CPU overhead need to to run the damn thing. (9600 interrupts per second just to check on the status of the "desktop") Who has not had Windows lock up and had to reboot several times.
Now, one could add Windows, 95,98 upto XP and get support for USB that way, but then you run into all that overhead thing and more importantly you run the risk of running "bootleged" Windows. You would need to get a copy of a none OEM ( Dell, HP etc) version of the software. MS wont sell it to you, there are some sources that can (used to) be able to sell it, at least XP. But to get XP you have to buy Win 7 pro, then ask for a "down grade to XP,
by the time you are done it is a mess and expensive. (Even OEM's will soon loose there "right" to sell XP.
I have been down this road a few times in the past year, trying to come up with a viable solution. Part of the problem is getting the USB to be "hot swappable". There are some workarounds for USB using DOS but it is somewhat like the "emulator" thing, in order to use upto 2GB drive you have to make the USB drive a bootable device, boot from it, then copy your files, turn off the machine, remove the USB drive, then reboot the machine.

As I had said "I have been down this road". I (OK a softare guy I know)did come up with a a driver that will work and be "hot swappable" But it needs certain requirments to work. The motherboard must have an older Inter bios and controller support for UHC1 (universat host controller 1) Now on the newer motherboards they (Intel) have dropped support for the UHC1, (USB1 host controller)
I found one motherboard that fits the bill. It will stop being manufactured in June of 2012.
OH YEAH, we get a 6 month window. I have been in contact with a Taiwan company to see if they would be interested in making a sutiable motherboard. Thier reply was " how many do you want to buy? meaning how many hundreds do you want to buy.
I could do SBC control updates for the next 6 monts maybe a while longer if I bought enough "spares" These would work on C5-B and up and C6 controls, C7 use a different type of Motherbard and I have not yet found that Motherboard type (104 type) that has the "requirements".
Other controls that have an older SBC update (maybe older then year or so could be updated to for USB support. It would depend on the mother that was used for the SBC update. (motherbaords seems to have about a one year run before being superseded).
My software guy told me that it would be at least a year befor he could / would write an update to his driver for USB2 support and seeing that they (Intel) now are using USB3 it might be outdated when it is done being rewritten.
So, It comes down to how bad does someone want the USB thumbdrive to work? As there are other alternatives, ie: networking, C-flash drives etc.
If this "sparks" enough interest, I will continue on with trying to get a usable USB thumb drive to work.
What are your thoughts?

Sportybob

[moldcore]

Thanks sportybob for that explanation. I had forgotten about the DOS limitations of the USB.

I think USB would be the better alternative. I don’t trust these card readers. Had too many fail in cameras (I’m a photo hobby nut). All the pro DSLR cameras use the compact flash cards so they must be pretty reliable but I’ve still seen them fail or the pins get bent in the cameras or readers. Nothing last forever I guess.

As for my computer, I found a IDE/SATA to USB adapter here:
Ultra USB 2.0 to IDE/SATA Cable for 2.5-Inch/ 3.5-Inch / 5.25-Inch Drive with Power Adapter at TigerDirect.com

I haven’t had a chance to install yet but this should allow me to use the 120MB SuperDisk on my machine again for those large programs. I'll let you know how it works.

[sportybob]

Moldcore, The adaptor you had a link to will not work. It is to connect a IDE / SATA device to a USB2 port. You do not have a USB port that will work.
I might suggest that you get a C-Flash drive to add to the control. The C-flash are pretty reliable. you can then stick it into a USB card reader to load programs onto it and then remove the C-Flash from the Reader and insert it into the IDE card reader on the machine. It would have to be formatted as FAT16. Or run networking.
As you have a Superdisk I assume that you have a C6 with either a hard drive or a SBC motherboard with either a C-Flash drive or a DOC (Disk on chip)
either one will support a Cflash or networking. As will any of the controls with a SBC control update. see this link. [ame="http://www.amazon.com/PQI-USB-2-0-CompactFlash-Reader/dp/B000W4T9KG"]Amazon.com: PQI USB 2.0 CompactFlash (CF) Card Reader: Camera & Photo[/ame]


Sportybob

[moldcore]

sportybob, the IDE/SATA to USB device was for my new desktop computer that won't work with the SuperDisk. I do have the C6 control with a hard drive and SuperDisk drive. Milltronics wants $2000 to upgrade the controller so I can use a C-flash drive. That's more than I want to spend right now, maybe when the economy picks up. Besides I would prefer an upgrade that would allow a USB instead. I have a card reader very similar to the one you linked to that I use with my camera.