[Machining]

Never ending story I'm sure, but I'm thinking about switching coolants. CNC milling mostly aluminum and plastics.

I get a fair amount of tramp oil, but my coolant is suppose to reject it, or so the info says. It seems like the coolant separates and I sometimes end up with almost dirty looking water with very little lubricity.

Each morning there is a varnish type coating on the vises and table surfaces. When the varnish dries I can only remove it by spraying coolant on it. I use a syphon type mixer. The product is Monroe Astro-Cut HD. When it's new it's great, but it losses the greatness in about three months.

Anyway, what are you using and do you like it? What does it do well and what could it do better?

[Shane1234]

we used to use astrocut, we switched to trim microsol 685 about 4 years ago, problem gone. however we machine stainless, t1, 1018, uhmw, an delrin primarily. stench is gone, film is not so bad, and can sit in the machine without using for months without maintaining it.

[Geof]

I have been using the Shell Dromus B http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC...S_Dromus_B.pdf for decades. Actually I first used it over fifty years ago when I was just an apprentice.

My shop does mostly aluminum and leaded steel with some mild steel and we have found boosting the concentration to 10% or even a bit higher gives better results in tapping.

This coolant washes off the aluminum just with a hot (85 degree) water spray and leaves no residue that causes problems when anodizing aluminum and it does not affect (cast) acrylic or polycarbonate. This is why I am very reluctant to ever try a different coolant.

Before we started using the Keller units it would get quite grungy with tramp oil and when the machines were not in use would get a rancid smell. Now that we have controlled the tramp oil it is fine and we rarely clean out a machine to replace used coolant. Most of our machines make lots of chips and the carry-out with the chips means the coolant is being replaced.

[txcncman]

I have worked for many shops and encountered many different coolants over the years. Yes, even actual cutting oil. (That was a lovely mess. We kept a mound of shop rags around the machine as a barrier and changed them about once a month. Worked great for cutting almost any material though.) Some of my favorites over the years have been Rust-lick 5050 (add Triadine about once every 4-8 weeks), ValCool, and Ashbury (do not remember which grade). The Ashbury tended to foam after a while and the foam would build up, not disapate, but was the most stable in the long run from bacteria growth. I did not care for CimStar at all.

[WATERJET71]

we used to use astrocut, we switched to trim microsol 685 about 4 years ago, problem gone. however we machine stainless, t1, 1018, uhmw, an delrin primarily. stench is gone, film is not so bad, and can sit in the machine without using for months without maintaining it.

I found a galon of this microsol 685 but doesn not have a label for directions what's the ratio for mixing?

tx

[Shane1234]

I found a galon of this microsol 685 but doesn not have a label for directions what's the ratio for mixing?

tx

3 parts water to one part microsol.
http://masterchemical.com/db-docs/pd...croSol_685.pdf

we use a mechanical mixing station so i had to look it up on the barrel. i keep my microsol at 3.5 on my refractometer, and then multiply by 1.2 as called out by trim. my coolant level is 4.2%. I usually charge it a little higher, about 5%-6% but NEVER let it get lower than 4.2% if you run it too low for long periods of time, you will get rust. rust is bad

[djr76]

I like Rustlick Powercool fluids myself, good bio stability. Just keep tramp oils out , and oxygenated, good to go for months on all kinds of metals and plastics from light to heavy duty machining.

[brokencarbide]

Blaser BC20. It's spendy but worth every penny. I have used Trim in the past but Blaser is the cadillac, and with the guys working around the mist and everything, spending a little more is worth the money. I've heard about 90% of the machines at IMTS are loaded with Blaser because it's so safe with the general public walking around, I know for a fact that Big Kaisers show room uses Blaser as well. Just my 2 cents.

[JRLuz14]

We use Blaser Swiss at my shop. My boss claims we use it because it's extremely safe. I hate it. It gets oily and starts to smell bad only after 2 months, even if the machine is used every single day. The coolant only sits stagnant one day per week, yet it still grows bacteria. We use Triadine once in a while but that's only a bandaid. We mix to 10-12 on the refractometer. I leave work every day with a heavy film of oil on my face that I can actually feel.

[brokencarbide]

if you have that much problems with Blaser, your doing something wrong. Perhaps your using a soft water formula and you have hard water? they have something like 50 different recipes. Also, i would never run 10-12%, that's way too high for Blaser, 5-7% is where the refract should read. Sounds like you should call your rep to get in there and get it figured out, our rep stops by once a year, checks PH levels etc.. Also, you mention adding some bio-cide, that's a no-no with Blaser, since Blaser is bacteria... you're killing your coolant... I've been happy with them for a long time, not always about the price, but performance is tops... don't take my word for it, next IMTS, check all the machines doing demo's, i bet 90% are running Blaser... because it won't go stink unless you make it go stink... just my 2 cents, i'd get your rep in there asap...

[extanker59]

We're using Castrol Syntilo 9954. It's the first full synthetic coolant I've used. We switched to it because of sump life. This stuff lasts and lasts. Just maintain concentration around 10-12% with our refractometer and a chart and it's good. We change it after a year just because our procedures tell us to (medical shop with procedures written for the old coolant). We had our supplier test it and it was still good.
I don't think I would recommend any other at this point. No smell, no rust (at all), and it lasts.
We also use a reverse osmosis system for the water. We got it at the same time as the coolant.

[Veracity]

Im using a HAAS TM-2 that does not use oil but grease for the ways. Using TRIM C270 but find that 1% less on concentration leaves rust spots on the table, and 1% over recommended concentration, leaves greenish residue underneath vise/chuck. But not on the surface of the table where there is no vice mounted. Tried to clean table and vice with bleach, solvents, oil, WD40, with all the same results... So i am in the hunt for a more reliable coolant.

[underthetire]

First off, blaser is an ok coolant. But they use it at the trade shows cause its free, just like distributers will use it in the showrooms cause its free. It will go bad, and will leave sticky crap everywhere, just like every other coolant I've seen. I've used more than most I'm sure, we always got free samples working for distributors. blaser will foam at moderate pressures, and really foam at high pressures, until it gets a couple weeks old. Trim makes some good products, however the perfume they put in the trim makes me sick. Everyone has a magic coolant, just look at there literature. I had switched to a company called gc lubricants for the showroom. Machines sat and sat there, it held up great, didn't stink out the office, and didn't stain the machines. Down side it was not a good coolant for stainless or gummy materials. My personal belief with coolants is it depends on who will support you if you have issues. If company a's coolant is that much better than company b, company a should put up or shut up. Ask where your free tank full is to try it. Also keep in mind I might not be allergic or get dermatitis from coolant a, but you might.
My order of preference for sump life only is

Gc lubricant, synthetic
Hangstefer
Blaser
Trim (not trim sol!)
Valcool

[brokencarbide]

First off, blaser is an ok coolant. But they use it at the trade shows cause its free, just like distributers will use it in the showrooms cause its free. It will go bad, and will leave sticky crap everywhere, just like every other coolant I've seen. I've used more than most I'm sure, we always got free samples working for distributors. blaser will foam at moderate pressures, and really foam at high pressures, until it gets a couple weeks old. Trim makes some good products, however the perfume they put in the trim makes me sick. Everyone has a magic coolant, just look at there literature. I had switched to a company called gc lubricants for the showroom. Machines sat and sat there, it held up great, didn't stink out the office, and didn't stain the machines. Down side it was not a good coolant for stainless or gummy materials. My personal belief with coolants is it depends on who will support you if you have issues. If company a's coolant is that much better than company b, company a should put up or shut up. Ask where your free tank full is to try it. Also keep in mind I might not be allergic or get dermatitis from coolant a, but you might.
My order of preference for sump life only is

Gc lubricant, synthetic
Hangstefer
Blaser
Trim (not trim sol!)
Valcool

I guess i didn't realize they give the stuff away, but it makes sense for them i suppose to get the product out there, it sure isn't cheap, I think we're up to $1300 per drum now, but we still all agree in the shop it's been the best thing we've used, and we've tried alot years past. We do see foaming issues when we run high pressure thru the carbide drills, no doubt about it, but we typically throw a cap full of their defoamer stuff in the machine and it's good to go. Hangstefers we threw out of the lathes because they smelled like an open gear case, our wives were all happy when we got rid of that stuff. as far as everybody cheering on E206, we tossed that out of the 3 mills that hadn't yet switched to Hangstefers because the Blaser smoked up on the tapping tool life so much, E206 wasn't even close. The rep asked us to stop in the middle of a production lot of some 1541 material, and the only thing we changed was the coolant, and our tap life went from 75-80 pcs, to 125 pcs... no question, no arguement, the coolant alone did that. Who know's things could change, just like carbide grades, but for now, I'm sold on Blaser.

[RCaffin]

Tried a variety of coolants etc on aluminium and plastics. None of them were satisfactory.

What I noticed was that the real problem was that the cutter got clogged up and the build-up of swarf made the cutter red hot. And then it broke. Coolants did not solve that. Mind you, that's milling, not tapping.

Switched to a hard air blast for milling and haven't looked back. It cools the cutter and the object for sure, but far more importantly it keeps the cutter 100% clear of chips. No chips, no build-up, no problems.

My 2c.

cheers

[Geof]

.....What I noticed was that the real problem was that the cutter got clogged up and the build-up of swarf made the cutter red hot. And then it broke....

I am interested to know your conditions: Type of alloy, cutter type, coated/uncoated, # of flutes, cutter dia., rpm., depth of cut, radial engagement, feed per tooth.

[RCaffin]

I am interested to know your conditions: Type of alloy, cutter type, coated/uncoated, # of flutes, cutter dia., rpm., depth of cut, radial engagement, feed per tooth.

Aluminium alloys: the usual range of machining alloys (eg 2011, 6060, 6061), plus some pretty awful 5005 H34 sheet. It's the soft 5005 H34 which really makes life difficult: it's like machining soft copper. But it can be bent quite well ... later.

Titanium sheet, 6Al4V, hard. (Aggresive feed and low rpm here to avoid any chance of heat.)

Some brass, a small amount of steel.

Many different plastics from PVC, PP, PE, through nylon and acetal to PET and PEEK. Also some strange composition material 25% acetal/75% aluminium hydroxide powder (Corain) which machines (fairly easily) like a friable ceramic. The results with that stuff are rather nice.

Cutters: HSS and carbide.
Coating: some bare, some ... I think it may be TiN (gold) on the HSS, and ??? on the carbide (black, TiCN? TiALN? proprietary?).
Flutes: 2 and 4 flutes.
Cutter dia: mainly 2 mm to 10 mm.
RPM: 2500, which is not real high I know. Machine limit.
DOC: usually small at present, but getting deeper with time.
Feed/tooth: ah ... not sure, haven't calculated it out. I look at the chips.

Without the air blast, the cutters seem to be forever getting clogged (esp on 5005!) no matter what lubricant is used. With the air blast the cutter stays very clean, there are no bumps from recutting chips, and everything stays cold. I suspect that high-pressure flood lubricant is really just doing something very similar to the air: just washing the chips away.

Preventing the swarf from sticking to the cutter or being caught up in the flutes seems to solve my problems. (So far!)

Cheers

[Caprirs]

I've been using Monroe's Astro-cut Syn. It is a full synthetic. Has been in my machines for a bit over 4 years. Only maintenance is to keep the concentration high enough. No bad smells, no bacterial growths.

[eorourke]

Coolant types are very dependent on the water in your area. Synthetic coolants have the longest sump life. Semi-Synthetic coolants also have pretty good sump life. Water Soluable coolants will have shorter sump life but will give you better lubricity and better tool life. There is almost no lubricity in synthetics. Semi-synthetics have more lubricity and are a good compromise especially if you are machining cast iron. If you are on a lathe then you can get away with synthetics and semi-synthetics because you do very little tapping. If you are doing a fair amount of tapping then water soluable coolants are the way to go. Finally, coolants are kind of like service. You get what you pay for. In other words, if you buy coolant on price then you shouldn't expect long sump life. The manufacturers are going to make a buck and they will skimp on ingredients to sell at a cheaper price. I have even seen manufacturers who will have test samples which are rich in ingredients in order to test good and get the business but in 6-9 months the coolant stinks and/or separates and you are back to square one. Just my three cents.

[DMF_TomB]

Never ending story I'm sure, but I'm thinking about switching coolants. CNC milling mostly aluminum and plastics.

I get a fair amount of tramp oil, but my coolant is suppose to reject it, or so the info says. It seems like the coolant separates and I sometimes end up with almost dirty looking water with very little lubricity.

Each morning there is a varnish type coating on the vises and table surfaces. When the varnish dries I can only remove it by spraying coolant on it. I use a syphon type mixer. The product is Monroe Astro-Cut HD. When it's new it's great, but it losses the greatness in about three months.

Anyway, what are you using and do you like it? What does it do well and what could it do better?

.
on a mill i just use plain mineral oil for milling aluminum. the same used to lubricate the machine. it leaves a oily residue that is not sticky and prevents rust and wipes off easily. worst case i use alcohol soaked baby wipes to get last 0.1% off a part. i use plain oil on a lathe too. radical concept but my machines are never sticky or have a tar like residue on them. stay rust free and wipe off easily. coolant never smells or has concentration problems.