[Ron Dunn]

I'm currently using a Fireball V90 CNC router.

CNC Stepper Motor Driver Systems & Hobby CNC Routers:: PROBOTIX™

Its spindle is a Proxxon LB/E.

PROXXON - LB/E

I cut mostly Radiata pine, using the following bits at 2mmDOC, around 12,000RPM and 1000mm/min.

1/8" (.1250") CARBIDE 2 FLUTE ENDMILLS, WOOD OR PLASTIC | eBay

I'd like to move to a stronger, more powerful, yet quieter machine. The Tormach 1100 seems to fit my needs, except for a concern about the spindle speed of 5,000RPM.

What cutting parameters - in terms of DOC and mm/min (or ipm, I don't care) should I reasonably be able to expect from this machine? I'm hoping (dreaming?) that I can cut at the same rate but deeper using this machine.

Of course, I'm not buying a machine like a Tormach *just* for this cutting specification. I want to mill metal objects later, but I still need to produce my current designs to pay for the machine

[flyinchips]

Tormach makes a speed tripler called the Speeder. It increases the spindle to 15000 RPM. You should be able to cut your pine as quickly with it as your Proxxon. GWizard says for soft wood, that 1/8 end mill with a 1" stickout is good for 3.66mm DOC. You may be able to get 50 to 60% more DOC with the Tormach if you have a good chip removal system. If you can reduce your stickout to .5 inches you DOC will go to .5 inches. You are using about 1/8 HP to get this cut. This tells me that stickout is important for this application (it usually is for small tools).

I have never heard the Speeder in operation. I don't know how quiet it is. I think there are videos of it in operation on line.

[Ron Dunn]

Thank you for the detailed comments

[kevinro]

Tormach makes a speed tripler called the Speeder. It increases the spindle to 15000 RPM. You should be able to cut your pine as quickly with it as your Proxxon. GWizard says for soft wood, that 1/8 end mill with a 1" stickout is good for 3.66mm DOC. You may be able to get 50 to 60% more DOC with the Tormach if you have a good chip removal system. If you can reduce your stickout to .5 inches you DOC will go to .5 inches. You are using about 1/8 HP to get this cut. This tells me that stickout is important for this application (it usually is for small tools).

I have never heard the Speeder in operation. I don't know how quiet it is. I think there are videos of it in operation on line.

I talked with Tormach about the speeder a couple of weeks ago. They are backordered indefinitely until they can find a new manufacturer.

In the mean time, I ordered the Kress high speed head kit, which is basically a very powerful aux spindle attached to the main spindle with a small offset. It will do up to 29,000 RPM and is approximately 1HP (800 Watts is slightly > 1hp). It is on its way.

This head will be roughly twice as fast as the speeder, and will actually have more HP available on the spindle. (The 1100 has a 1.5 HP at the spindle. A speed tripler will drop that to 0.5 HP). The other advantage to this is that many small bits actually want to run faster than 15000 RPM. For example, a 0.125 carbide end mill can run at 30,000 RPM

Of course, this all sounds groovy on paper!

[Ron Dunn]

I've got a Kress 1050 sitting unused on the shelf. Quieter than a screaming router, but still an un-neighbourly noise.

[philbur]

Hi Kevin, how did you figure that? The HP should be the same, barring losses. The torque will be down to a third though. Material removal rates however are fundamentally a function of horsepower, not torque.

Phil

(The 1100 has a 1.5 HP at the spindle. A speed tripler will drop that to 0.5 HP).

[zephyr9900]

Ron, the Kress is that much louder than a Proxxon at full speed? Darn, I was halfway thinking about moving up to a Kress myself... When I'm doing a lithophane, I'll have the IB/E running at full speed for 3-4 hours at a time.

Does your LB/E have double bearings in that long snout? (I haven't been able to find an exploded-view drawing online.) My IB/E only has a single nose bearing (I upgraded to a hybrid ceramic a couple of years ago and am overdue for replacing it again) which, to me, is its main limitation.

Randy

[Ron Dunn]

Hi Randy,

Yes, the Kress I have is lot louder than the Proxxon, especially at high speeds. It is difficult to be accurate in comparison because of the different noise it makes, but I'd definitely say louder. I bought the Kress on its reputation for quietness. If it wasn't for the fact that I'd bought it from an overseas supplier who delivered exactly what I'd asked for, I'd have returned it long ago.

The Proxxon sounds a bit like my Mum's sewing machine back in the 60s. The Kress (1050 FME-1) sounds somewhat like my Bosch jigsaw (http://www.justtools.com.au/prod4895.htm).

I don't know what type/count of bearings are in the LB/E, and I'm a bit scared to pull it apart and find out. Is there any easy way to tell?

Mine only runs for a maximum of 15-20 minutes at a time, and at somewhere between 11,000 and 16,000 RPM. It has never even got warm.

For me, the best thing about the LB/E was its ease of mounting. I made two brackets with 20mm holes and it fitted perfectly - no need to make an odd-shaped upper bracket to fit around the tool body.

[zephyr9900]

Ron, thanks for the reply. My IB/E has an exploded view in the owner's manual. And yes, even the IB/E is easy to mount because its nose, although short, is cylindrical and a split clamp works well to hold it. I've used it to mill acrylic, brass, nickel silver and aluminum.

UPDATE/CLOSURE: I found the LB/E manual at http://www.axminster.co.uk/downloads/474573_manual.pdf , and it shows the LB/E also has only a single nose bearing.

Randy

[kevinro]

I've got a Kress 1050 sitting unused on the shelf. Quieter than a screaming router, but still an un-neighbourly noise.

I now have the Kress 800 mounted on my PCNC 1100. I don't find it to be obnoxious or anything. It is a high speed motor, so it has that router sort of sound. Compared to the machine running, it is definitely a higher register, but not bad. Less obnoxious than my relatively quiet shopvac.

I am happy with it.

[Ron Dunn]

That is a really good point, Kevin ... it is silent compared to my tank-regiment-starting-on-a-cold-winter-morning vacuum (otherwise known as Karcher A2004).

[bevinp]

Kevin,
Is that an air pipe feeding the RH coolant hose? And is it just for the Kress?
Bevin

[kevinro]

Kevin,
Is that an air pipe feeding the RH coolant hose? And is it just for the Kress?
Bevin

Very observant! The left hose is for flood coolant, and the right hose is for air. I actually haven't used the flood coolant just yet as I am mostly doing aluminum with carbide bits, so I tend to stick to air with a little WD-40 now and then. The air is also available for the Kress.

Which is actually a great lead in to a question: Would one want to use flood coolant with a tiny bit mounted in a Kress head? I have debated this in my brain many times and kept coming up with air instead.

[zephyr9900]

Kevin, I've shown this picture in another thread but I'll repeat it here. I've used "flood" coolant with little bits in the Proxxon spindle with good results. The bits I've used with it are .020" and down, and don't throw the coolant around too much. I just gently flow it out onto the surface and the bit stirs it around a "bit". When I'm doing work with a .009" ball-end mill, I want to be sure the chips are evacuated from the cut.

The only drawback was when I didn't disassemble the collet from the spindle when I put the mill into storage, and got surface rust on my one and only .125" collet. It has ruined the fit, and Proxxon doesn't sell individual collets--only sets.

If I do buy a Kress spindle, I'll be sure to get extra collets just in case. And a good wipedown with IPA (that's isopropyl alcohol, not India Pale Ale ) after use will keep the collet and spindle nose from rusting. The coolant will wick up some into the crevices in the collet. IPA mixes well with water and helps evaporate it.

Randy