[rustyh]

rustyh couple questions

what version of M3 are you using, are the steps per correct, what speed and accl are you running, are the high and low voltage wires sperated, is the usb cord no where near the high voltage wires, is the common ground/earth connected properly

Hi Dan,

I cant really answer some of these questions as I am not fully au fait with the electronic system of a cnc. I would welcome some guidance if you wish to PM me.

I am using the latest M3, downloaded from the artsoft website, and licensed. I use the config file Defeng sent me......so you will need to advise on what the steps per should be, as I have not altered these over what was sent.

I was recommended however to keep lowering the speed and accl in the motor settings to see if the machine stabilised.....and while the lower I got did improve the difference between the original zero'ing and where it ended up after a couple of runs, I was getting down to agonising slow speed and it still wasn't perfect.

The USB cable enters the machine electronics cabinet not to far from the power inlet really......so I don't see how I can separate them more! and the distance from the transformer in the bottom of the cab to the control board in the top of the cab isn't exactly meters,

When you refer to the common ground and earth being connected properly. Do you mean of the machine? If so I aint got a clue. If you mean of the electrical supply, all I can say is that the wiring has been done by an electrician, and I simply plugged the skyfire machine in to the plug socket!

[ger21]

It amazes me that the moderators of this site allow him to anger people and leave the site

.
.
Everyone in this thread is equally responsible.
Don't feed the trolls. Don't reply, and the posts stop. Start arguing, and they go on forever.

I don't have time to babysit you guys and edit and delete all your posts. I could ban you all, but I figure I'll just let you guys deal with each other.

[ger21]

This is not PC machine related as I have a high power PC and Licensed Mach 3

This guarantees nothing.
I run Mach3 on a 1Ghz Pentium III. I've seen PC's that are 10x faster that won't run Mach3 properly.

[mcphill]

Its been a while since Ive posted on this thread. In fact its been a long time since I have used this site, mainly cause of the arrogant self centred know it all, handlewanker (the last bit being so true). It amazes me that the moderators of this site allow him to anger people and leave the site……free speech I guess….to the demise of the site.

Well I’ve had my machine now for around 6 months……..I’ve cut one part on it!!
I have had endless amount of problems with it.

I’m going to start by saying this……..I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND YOU PURCHASE A SKYFIRE CNC MACHINE!
Save up a little more and get a Tormach 440 or 1100 if you want a very capable hobby machine. These are well proven and stable.
Some 3 years ago I was advised by Handlewanker that I should get the Skyfire machine, as it was all singing all dancing and far superior than the Tormach………I clearly didn’t know the bull**** Ian talks back then. So I went ahead and purchased the Skyfire………..and finally received it some 2 years later!

Since receiving it, I have had endless problems. I would honestly say I have spent more in man hours trying to repair things than what the machine is worth.

I have seen many a comment on this thread saying that Defeng has copied the Mikini CNC of old and upgraded the electronics………..In my honest opinion…..I think Defeng has used the Mikini components and just added a different shell. Why do I believe this, well during part of the strip down I have had to do to find problems, I found (due to the lousy paint job, that under that orange paint of over the castings……..was the infamous Mikini green paint!! Now yes, I acknowledge that maybe Defeng painted the castings green at first…….but I highly doubt it.
I’d be interested in some of you other owners to peel off the liner rail covers and see if there is green under your orange paint as well.


So problems…..where do I start

Leaks – I get puddles of coolant on the floor due to leaks in the bottom where it joins the stand. Ive still not fixed this, as I don’t think running sealant along the inside edge will work as when I collect and clean out the swarf, it’s just going to tear it out. So I may need to run a full welded seam along there.

Swarf Blockage – There is no swarf filter on the coolant system, so swarf is drained in to the coolant bath and sucked back up by the pump. This causes blockages in the coolant lines / disty blocks, and probably knackers up the pump.
By the way, I also find the coolant pump is crap, and provided poor chip evacuation.

Paint Job – The paint has probably been applied over rust and oil, as its peeling and flaking off every component. It won’t be long before the shell looks a right mess. Its rushed and very poor quality.

Cable Protective sleeve and glands – Ive had to complete redo these, as the sleeve was coming out of the glands and exposing the cables.


Accuracy – This is the big one. The machine never holds its zero, causing part to part inaccuracies. This is not PC machine related as I have a high power PC and Licensed Mach 3 running the correct JMC drivers and Config file Defeng sent. Ive had to strip the machine back to check motor slip rings, rails, bearings, etc. Currently to no avail.

Loose Components – Following the investigations to try and resolve the accuracy issues, Ive found a number bolts loose. From the ball screw bearing holders, Motor Bolts, etc
Electrical Issues – I constantly get the breaker tripping when I turn the machine on, which worries me and the surges are going to damage the circuit boards.

There are other issues but I need to head out now, so will leave it there

Many of your issues are rehashes of issues with the Mikini. No surprise. There are likely a number of posts you could use to solve some issues on your own (I TOTALLY agree the machine should not have these issues from day 0, but sometimes you get what you pay for and you just need to power through and solve the issues you confront. In hindsight, I wish I had bought a Tormach instead of the Mikini, but I have what I have now and I make due with it.).

Solutions...

Leaks? You're not alone: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/mikini...795-forum.html

Chips in the coolant? Add your own filter for a few bux: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/mikini...ml#post1027488

Don't like the lighting? Add your own: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/mikini...489-posts.html

Want a "power drawbar" but didn't order one? Build your own: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/mikini...ml#post1069424

Paint issues? Join everyone on the forum. Coolant "eats" paint. Almost the entire inside of my machine has the paint peeled off. It's a fact of life in CNC machines in general. A better solution would be if companies would put a plastic sheet on the surface and not even worry about paint...

[louieatienza]

Its been a while since Ive posted on this thread. In fact its been a long time since I have used this site, mainly cause of the arrogant self centred know it all, handlewanker (the last bit being so true). It amazes me that the moderators of this site allow him to anger people and leave the site……free speech I guess….to the demise of the site.

Well I’ve had my machine now for around 6 months……..I’ve cut one part on it!!
I have had endless amount of problems with it.

I’m going to start by saying this……..I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND YOU PURCHASE A SKYFIRE CNC MACHINE!
Save up a little more and get a Tormach 440 or 1100 if you want a very capable hobby machine. These are well proven and stable.
Some 3 years ago I was advised by Handlewanker that I should get the Skyfire machine, as it was all singing all dancing and far superior than the Tormach………I clearly didn’t know the bull**** Ian talks back then. So I went ahead and purchased the Skyfire………..and finally received it some 2 years later!

Since receiving it, I have had endless problems. I would honestly say I have spent more in man hours trying to repair things than what the machine is worth.

I have seen many a comment on this thread saying that Defeng has copied the Mikini CNC of old and upgraded the electronics………..In my honest opinion…..I think Defeng has used the Mikini components and just added a different shell. Why do I believe this, well during part of the strip down I have had to do to find problems, I found (due to the lousy paint job, that under that orange paint of over the castings……..was the infamous Mikini green paint!! Now yes, I acknowledge that maybe Defeng painted the castings green at first…….but I highly doubt it.
I’d be interested in some of you other owners to peel off the liner rail covers and see if there is green under your orange paint as well.


So problems…..where do I start

Leaks – I get puddles of coolant on the floor due to leaks in the bottom where it joins the stand. Ive still not fixed this, as I don’t think running sealant along the inside edge will work as when I collect and clean out the swarf, it’s just going to tear it out. So I may need to run a full welded seam along there.

Swarf Blockage – There is no swarf filter on the coolant system, so swarf is drained in to the coolant bath and sucked back up by the pump. This causes blockages in the coolant lines / disty blocks, and probably knackers up the pump.
By the way, I also find the coolant pump is crap, and provided poor chip evacuation.

Paint Job – The paint has probably been applied over rust and oil, as its peeling and flaking off every component. It won’t be long before the shell looks a right mess. Its rushed and very poor quality.

Cable Protective sleeve and glands – Ive had to complete redo these, as the sleeve was coming out of the glands and exposing the cables.


Accuracy – This is the big one. The machine never holds its zero, causing part to part inaccuracies. This is not PC machine related as I have a high power PC and Licensed Mach 3 running the correct JMC drivers and Config file Defeng sent. Ive had to strip the machine back to check motor slip rings, rails, bearings, etc. Currently to no avail.

Loose Components – Following the investigations to try and resolve the accuracy issues, Ive found a number bolts loose. From the ball screw bearing holders, Motor Bolts, etc
Electrical Issues – I constantly get the breaker tripping when I turn the machine on, which worries me and the surges are going to damage the circuit boards.

There are other issues but I need to head out now, so will leave it there

I don't think there was any hiding these were the old Mikini castings - there's even a picture of them laying around in a very early post. Defeng was the designer of those castings.

Obviously, there's reasons why one would get a Tormach, and there's reasons why one would choose these machines. The biggest being its use of profile linear rails, which has the potential of better performance and higher speed. There should be no excuse for some of the QC issues you've mentioned, but they don't seem to be difficult to resolve.

As to the machine not holding zero, couldn't say as mine holds position and accuracy all day. Haven't even installed homing/limit switches. But, I did purchase mine bare-bones, and the only electronics supplied to me were the VFD for the spindle, which miraculously seems to work fine (knock on cast iron...) I used my own USB controller and stepper drives. I wonder if it's lash in the ballnut, problems with the motor couplers?

[daniellyall]

Hi Dan,

I cant really answer some of these questions as I am not fully au fait with the electronic system of a cnc. I would welcome some guidance if you wish to PM me.

I am using the latest M3, downloaded from the artsoft website, and licensed. I use the config file Defeng sent me......so you will need to advise on what the steps per should be, as I have not altered these over what was sent. it's in the M3 manual how to set this

you should be using 62 you can get it from here ftp://machsupport.com/Mach3/

I was recommended however to keep lowering the speed and accl in the motor settings to see if the machine stabilised.....and while the lower I got did improve the difference between the original zero'ing and where it ended up after a couple of runs, I was getting down to agonising slow speed and it still wasn't perfect. this means something is way out but the correct way to do it

The USB cable enters the machine electronics cabinet not to far from the power inlet really......so I don't see how I can separate them more! and the distance from the transformer in the bottom of the cab to the control board in the top of the cab isn't exactly meters,

When you refer to the common ground and earth being connected properly. Do you mean of the machine? If so I aint got a clue. If you mean of the electrical supply, all I can say is that the wiring has been done by an electrician, and I simply plugged the skyfire machine in to the plug socket!

this can be looked at latter.

first thing to do install .62 it just over writes the version you have it does not stuff your settings.

then read the manual on how to set your steps per, once you have this done set the speed to 500mm/min or 19in/min run some test just moving 100 mm + then send it back to Zero one axis at a time don't do more than one at a time.

if the axis is fine move onto the next axis if not slow down by 100 and set the accle to 10% of you mm/min or there about if 500mm/min set accle to 50

this stuff takes time but take your time one step at a time it's just a proses of elimination. I have been there done this with the help of ger and others the older members who do this for a living are the best to listen to they never have put me wrong. no BS

as ger says you computer can be a problem it does not matter if it is supper-fast I found that one machine never had problem, another machine lot's of problems swooped computer the problem moved with the computer.

[louieatienza]

Hi Dan,

I cant really answer some of these questions as I am not fully au fait with the electronic system of a cnc. I would welcome some guidance if you wish to PM me.

I am using the latest M3, downloaded from the artsoft website, and licensed. I use the config file Defeng sent me......so you will need to advise on what the steps per should be, as I have not altered these over what was sent.

I was recommended however to keep lowering the speed and accl in the motor settings to see if the machine stabilised.....and while the lower I got did improve the difference between the original zero'ing and where it ended up after a couple of runs, I was getting down to agonising slow speed and it still wasn't perfect.

The USB cable enters the machine electronics cabinet not to far from the power inlet really......so I don't see how I can separate them more! and the distance from the transformer in the bottom of the cab to the control board in the top of the cab isn't exactly meters,

When you refer to the common ground and earth being connected properly. Do you mean of the machine? If so I aint got a clue. If you mean of the electrical supply, all I can say is that the wiring has been done by an electrician, and I simply plugged the skyfire machine in to the plug socket!

You can try to get a ferrite choke, and put it on your USB cable. Potentially you could be losing steps due to interference of some sort. You can buy them at Radio Shack for about $4 for a bag of 2. Other than that, the fact that your accuracy improves when slowing down could mean you're losing steps due to low stepper torque at the higher speeds, or it could well be a problem with Mach3. Did you run the speed test on your computer?

[ihavenofish]

Accuracy – This is the big one. The machine never holds its zero, causing part to part inaccuracies. This is not PC machine related as I have a high power PC and Licensed Mach 3 running the correct JMC drivers and Config file Defeng sent. Ive had to strip the machine back to check motor slip rings, rails, bearings, etc. Currently to no avail.

probably a mach3/driver communication issue. check the box marked "sherline mode" in the main configuration tab and see if that helps. the reason for this is the driver "misses" some pulses from mach3 at very low speeds and over time they accumulate to a lost zero position. they also show up in flattened circles. i used to blame this on my gecko drivers but it never happened under linux cnc, so i think its just the pulse timing in mach. "sherline mode" creates a 50% duty cycle pulse that the drives never seem to miss.

(edit, ahh, the usb card... im not sure how that plays into this, if the sherline mode affects it at all. hmm)

[rustyh]

Did you run the speed test on your computer?

A generic speed test or one specific to mach 3?

[ihavenofish]

Paint issues? Join everyone on the forum. Coolant "eats" paint. Almost the entire inside of my machine has the paint peeled off. It's a fact of life in CNC machines in general. A better solution would be if companies would put a plastic sheet on the surface and not even worry about paint...

yeah, paints is always annoying. thinking a tormach would somehow have better paint? not likely from what ive seen. my novakon paint didnt last long. your basically showering it with shards of metal and solvent, so while good paint would certainly be an improvement and look pretty for a while, even a $50000 DMG will have the paint stripped inside the cabin in a year or 2. paint is the least of your concerns ultimately.

i tremclad'd my blasted to bare metal novakon castings after the fire.... looks rather nice. im sure it will peel off within an hour of use though on the inside :P

[rustyh]

this can be looked at latter.

first thing to do install .62 it just over writes the version you have it does not stuff your settings.

then read the manual on how to set your steps per, once you have this done set the speed to 500mm/min or 19in/min run some test just moving 100 mm + then send it back to Zero one axis at a time don't do more than one at a time.

if the axis is fine move onto the next axis if not slow down by 100 and set the accle to 10% of you mm/min or there about if 500mm/min set accle to 50

this stuff takes time but take your time one step at a time it's just a proses of elimination. I have been there done this with the help of ger and others the older members who do this for a living are the best to listen to they never have put me wrong. no BS

as ger says you computer can be a problem it does not matter if it is supper-fast I found that one machine never had problem, another machine lot's of problems swooped computer the problem moved with the computer.

Ive already carried out this test on the recommendation of the mach 3 forum. I got down to about 200mm/min if I remember and it started to become stable.

[G59]

you're looking for a conspiracy where there is none.

time to take a break from this thread maybe?

Not true.

If I owned a small business and ordered a SVM mill because thats all I could afford at the time, is it OK to wait 2 years.

There is nothing wrong with that?? You and Jips have almost instant access to Defeng but no one else does???

You know where I think you should go....................

BS and that's all. HOW DARE YOU DEFEND HIM????

ihavenofish..............YOU ARE OUT OF TOUCH.
You stand by someone who has taken money and has only delivered to a select few.
Now tell me I'm full of it.that " that's just my opinion".
I'm tired of you and louie and and Jips and especially Ian"handlecranker" defending him. Realize something here. You all can also take a break if you don't like "my opinion" It's not a one way street.

Have a great day!

[rustyh]

Paint issues? Join everyone on the forum. Coolant "eats" paint. Almost the entire inside of my machine has the paint peeled off. It's a fact of life in CNC machines in general. A better solution would be if companies would put a plastic sheet on the surface and not even worry about paint...

So you happy to pay a whack load of money out for a machine to have the outside looking ****e? And yes, I'm talking about bubbly, peeling paint, paint over rust, etc on the outside and the inside......and that was before I ran any coolant though

[rustyh]

Not true.

If I owned a small business and ordered a SVM mill because thats all I could afford at the time, is it OK to wait 2 years.

Just wanted to point out........that is exactly my position. I have a small business and needed a cnc to do some work on. I've lost money waiting 2 years for a machine. I now have a machine sitting there that I cant use, and so still loosing jobs which I have to out source

[ihavenofish]

A generic speed test or one specific to mach 3?

mach3 has a utility to test its latency (its mostly about hiccups in latency)

ive never tried one of these usb cards, so i dont know how much they are responsible for pulse generation, or if they are relaying mach3's pulses.

if its the latter, sherline mode is where to start. if the card creates its own pulses, then there must be settings for it.

as a general rule, lost zero without obvious motor stalling = lost steps = commmunication error first, mach3 cv (contouring) bug second.

[rustyh]

[QUOTE=ihavenofish;1868850]mach3 has a utility to test its latency (its mostly about hiccups in latency)
QUOTE]

I will run this when I'm next at the unit and let you know

[jips]

Not true.

There is nothing wrong with that?? You and Jips have almost instant access to Defeng but no one else does???

You know where I think you should go....................

BS and that's all. HOW DARE YOU DEFEND HIM????

I'm tired of you and louie and and Jips and especially Ian"handlecranker" defending him. Realize something here. You all can also take a break if you don't like "my opinion" It's not a one way street.

Have a great day!

Wow ok , I try my best to help share and everything I 'm not VIP or anything else you know what i will leave it there don't know the english correct sentence but here we say "give hand they take arm" I try to contact cnc zone admin to open a dedicated zone no answer i will open an instagram and facebook group today and don't anymore be treated like that while I try my best !
I manage to get in touch with him and at end you tell me that ! are you serious ? I'm a a good person but got my limit and you switched it , done M5 M30 !

Envoyé de mon GT-N7100 en utilisant Tapatalk

[ihavenofish]

Not true.

If I owned a small business and ordered a SVM mill because thats all I could afford at the time, is it OK to wait 2 years.

There is nothing wrong with that?? You and Jips have almost instant access to Defeng but no one else does???

You know where I think you should go....................

BS and that's all. HOW DARE YOU DEFEND HIM????

ihavenofish..............YOU ARE OUT OF TOUCH.
You stand by someone who has taken money and has only delivered to a select few.
Now tell me I'm full of it.that " that's just my opinion".
I'm tired of you and louie and and Jips and especially Ian"handlecranker" defending him. Realize something here. You all can also take a break if you don't like "my opinion" It's not a one way street.

Have a great day!

i offer no defense for him. im only trying to clear up misconceptions for the sake of everyone involved. youll note that gregory had already got in touch with defeng before you had your little rant.

"why" defeng didnt get in touch with him before jips had to help i can say, but that is why its nice people here CAN help without the need for a ****fest. theres no special hotline that only a handful of people have, but if someone with active communication can help someone else who has somehow slipped through the cracks, that is a good thing, not a bad one.

there is no argument defeng botched this entire business venture, and he may or may not ever recover, but WE, as customers, potential customers, and community have the choice of moaning endlessly or attempting to be constructive and salvage what we can of this mess. i try to do the latter.

[ihavenofish]

so for the record, i have had 7 cnc machines.

3 were xzero (upgrading from one to the next, bigger faster, etc, 3rd one almost ready to go, zoom)
3 were novakon. (again upgrading from little one to big one)
1 is a used maho (DMG)

of those 3 companies, the worst, BY FAR to deal with? DMG. mostly because they dont deal with you! i called and asked about parts, they reply 3 weeks later to tell you they will look into it and then nothing. i call about the price on a new machine, i literally have to hound them for FIVE MONTHS to get the price of the machine. then the guy didnt even bother to reply to my remaining questions when i told him i bought something else in the meantime. DMG is one of if not the largest machine tool company in the world, and they are that bad. id deal with defeng any day before them.

novakon was/is always very good with communication to me, but others have had issues. the machines them selves have had small issues, oil lines and leaking enclosures being 2 i remember off hand. there was one big one - motor drive as has been mentioned - on only one of the machines. of course i lit mine on fire, so its now being restored, but thats not their fault :P

xzero is easy to deal with. emails at all hours, visits to my shop, but the wait time on a machine in the early days could be half a year and have missing screws (kit in a box, not an assembled machine). hes much better now, hes got his system down pretty good, but it took a while to get there. (and now hes going to email me about why i dragged his name into this stupid thread, ha!)

point is, if you think the grass is greener on the other side youll be in for a pretty big shock. no matter what level you are paying for, the whole industry seems disorganised as hell to the average customer!

again, no defense for defeng, just saying its better to be constructive with what you have than just moaning.

[G59]

again, no defense for defeng, just saying its better to be constructive with what you have than just moaning.

I have to agree.

Sorry if I offended anyone.
I just get annoyed very quickly as I've once been on the recieving end of another business that followed this Do Not Reply BS. It leaves you feeling powerless and you can only watch your business fall when the parts you ordered months ago, don't show up.