[T_Tactical]

Hi guys,

Maybe ya'll can help me out. I've been on the waiting list forever for a G0704 mill and it started out as being available March 21st, then May 20th and now 6 to 8 weeks which would be middle to end of July. I'm getting tired of waiting so I'm debating on getting something else.

I've been looking at the ZX45 mill from Wholesale Tool, G0484 mill from Grizzly, the ZX45 mill from Bolton and the 12Z from IH.

I'd love to hear from people who have experience with these machines and to hear your likes and dislikes about them.

Whichever I go with I'm not going to CNC it, I want to keep it manual.

I know the ZX45 mills are much larger but I don't mind because I have plenty of shop space. I would like a power feed table so the G0484 appeals to me but I think they make power feeds to fit the other ZX45 mills also if I decide to purchase from another company.

I've heard the gear drives can be loud and I've heard people talk about the heads leaking gear oil but I was wondering if these problems are rare or happen to many of the machines.

Are the dials imperial or metric?

Can they be changed to a belt drive with a VFD?

Any info you guys could give me on the pros and cons of these machines would really help me out.

Also if I would be better off waiting for a G0704 mill then let me know. The parts I'll be doing are small enough to be done on the G0704 but if I had a larger mill I'm sure I could think of larger jobs to do. I don't mind spending the extra cash (within reason), I just want to pick up a quality machine that will last and will be problem free.

I'd appreciate any info you guys can give me.

[gd.marsh]

T,

I have a Bolton ZX45 which I pulled out of the crate & immediately began to convert to CNC ..
14+ months later I'm close (but that's my fault due to time constraints) I will say the overall fit & finish of the machine was in my opinion a notch above my Grizzly 'round column' when it was purchased new.

Just a couple of thoughts .. yes the 45's are bigger machines .. but no where near the size of bridgeport or similar .. you can still easily move a 45 with an engine hoist (or several hefty friends) & it can be mounted on a bench, though most seem to purchase or build a stand for it. Bigger machines can still make small parts .. the opposite is not always true .. it seems from what I've read the gear noise & leaking is pretty much ubiquitous among these machines .. a nuisance perhaps but it doesn't seem to turn many people away from them. Power feeds are available from many suppliers .. Belt drive is certainly possible although not exactly a 'simple' mod ..

One more thing .. I doubt that you will find any of the less expensive, Chinese machines that will not require a thorough re-inspection & tweaking out of the box AND regular maintenance to keep it working to its best capability ..

At any rate that's my $.02 .. and I hope which ever way you go, you have as much fun with your machine as I have had with mine .. I haven't even used it yet, but the conversion alone has provided me with a year's worth of incredible & rewarding fun both designing & building the many components for the machine. (well .. everything but the modbus spindle control - that one just about pushed me over the edge!)

good luck!

[eartaker]

There is no contemplating... Just go with the ZX45 lol. As Gary said the Machine will is annoying with the gear drive. On low speed it isn't bad but on high it has a nice whine to it. The machine can be converted to belt drive with a few modifications but it takes a little bit of machining. Also I'm not sure Grizzly has fixed the G0704 motor controller issues as well.

On another note both GD.Marsh and I have the Bolton version.

[mattmark]

hey tactical,

some thoughts - what type of material are you cutting? i find my zay7045 (machine tools warehouse version) is a bit slow for cutting aluminum, but for manual use could be fine (quite a comfortable range for steel rpm at least for the end mills i've been using). i never had oil issues, but the gear head is a bit noisy (compared to the belt drive i'm about to install right now).

compared to my g0704 (yet another canadian clone, king kc-20vs), the RF-45 can take some fairly serious cuts on steel and aluminum with ease.

the IH clones have quite a bump up in Y working area and their head attachment to the column is a lot beefier than the others, but with added cost.

my dials are in inches.

if i had to do it again, probably would go with the IH clone.. $450 more though (at MTW)

matt

[T_Tactical]

Thanks for all the help guys. It certainly sounds like you all are happy with your ZX45.

mattmark, I'll be cutting anything from CPM 154 stainless steel to 7075T6 aluminum. Might even cut a little 718 inconel also.

I noticed that the Wholesale Tool model runs a little faster at 1,970 rpms which might be better for me when cutting aluminum.

What size vise are ya'll using? Is the machine large enough for a 6" vise. I'm trying to get a size comparison in my head. All the pics I've seen are of just the machine so I don't really have anything to compare it too.

[ma1]

I have the WTtool ZX45 model. I am also using it in manual mode. I suggest you install a DRO on the machine, makes things much much easier and more accurate. I made a retrofit 3-axis DRO using iGAGING remote readout units. Total cost was <$120. Other commercial units sell for $700-$inf.
I have no plans for CNC in the near future, but you never know

I am happy with the machine so far, I have the loud gears and oil leaking from spindle onto workpiece overnight, but not a hinderance to the operation. My mill had rust and discoloration at spots out of the crate, but was trammed very well (<0.001") at factory. I bought the stand from WTTool also, came in very handy. Used an engine hoist from HarborFreight ($180) to lift it onto the stand by myself mostly, two people comes in handy when trying to exact place it on the stand. Make sure not to remove the head or the column, just lower the head to the bottom and hook the hoist around it. Grizzly user manual for their model has nice instructions. Mine came with the oil box empty, make sure to put heavy duty Gear oil 80/20 or something in it (can find at auto parts store).

The WTTool machine hooks to a regular 110v outlet, but make sure it is not a shared one (has its own fuse at the fusebox rated at least 15A). I mainly did aluminum and a bit steel so far, very good for both. I am using a heavy duty 6" vise (Kurt style Chinese) with swivel base, and this machine carries it nicely. The y travel can be hindered a bit by this big of a vise (unless you mount it off-center balance) , you lose about one inch or so. One funny thing is , one end of the y-axis travel is exactly at the start/zero point on the vise jaw plate (no unneeded travel) when you center mount. The x and y travels are much smaller than a Bridgeport clone, but much better than similar smaller mills (G0704, x3, x2 etc).

There was a WTTool generic coupon, look online. I got mine for $1400 if I remember correct. $100-150 was the stand price. Enco, Grizzly, Travers Tool,PennTool and many other vendors carry similar Rong-fu 45 clone models. Their shipping and coupon status varies, you need to shop around.

My suggestion is, if you are thinking about a serious milling machine for the amateur budget and house space, this is it. The G0704 and X3 is not in the same category as this guy.

ma1

[mattmark]

hey,

i have a 6" vise and i agree with ma1. esp for the harder material stuff, it's nicer to have a bigger/more powerful mill. haven't cut inconel, etc yet though.

do you have 220V power? running on 110 is a nice option and if you can get it for $1400, sounds like a great deal.

matt

[eartaker]

I just placed an order for my 6" X 5.5" opening and think it will fit well on the mill. I also ordered a clamping set just in case I want to cut something over the limit of the vise. You should check out some of the youtube videos on both machines. That might give you a comparison.

[arizonavideo]

The main knock is the slow top spindle speed. It is fairly simple to just replace the motor with a 3600 rpm and be able to get about 3500 RPM. Unless you need 100 RPM for tapping their is no great loss.

My IH has hardened gears but I have not seen anyone have the gears go bad just the bearings.

The shaft for the motor is 19mm.

[abomination]

I just bought a second hand zx-45 from a local who bought a bigger turret mill. The guy used the the zx45 to make hot air engines etc.

My first impressions are it is a good sold mill. It is constructed well, everything is nice and smooth and even on high speed the gearbox is not overly noisy.

For good measure I have stripped the entire mill down to clean everything, put NSK bearings in the gearbox and spindle and I have added oil grooves to the dovetails to fit a one shot oiler. I must admit the bearing fitted were all in excellent condition, The gears showed no sign of wear and there was no sand or metal shavings in the gearbox sump so all in all I am very impressed.

I don't think you will be disappointed

[thedave]

Several of us on the boards have purchased PM-45 mills from Matt at Precision Matthews in the last few months. Matt is great to deal with. I am not going to CNC mine so I bought one with the power down feed, and power feed on the X. I wish I would have added the DRO. I will be purchasing that soon. I put a pair of Shars 5" vices on it.

Precision Matthews PM45M Bench Top Milling Machine

PM-45M Thread

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/bencht..._3_axis-9.html

[eartaker]

I know you were asking about what vise size so I thought I would show you this.... My 6" has yet to arrive so I trammed my 3" just to start cutting. here is the 3" on the ZX-45.

[Maglin]

I'm very impressed with the PM-45 myself. Was going to get a G0704 but the back order delays just kept coming and I needed a mill. My lathe actually held up my mill delivery but I was still on backorder for the 704 when mine arrived. My gear box is full of oil with a sight glass. I haven't turned it on yet but it's 220v and going next to my Bridgeport that I have a 3HP VFD. The motor is a single phase double capacitance motor whatever that means. I kind of wish it was a 3 phase so I could more directly control the speed of it with the VFD.

The X and Y ways are ground a scraped. Looks to be power scraped and probably not measured but you have oil control. I think the Z cranking would get pretty old as it's a lot to move it. I think the ZX45 has a power Z option but I could be wrong. The thing is larger than you think. Everyone says it and I thought it would be large but it was still larger that I expected. It's not to much smaller than the Bridgeport if you don't include the BP's base.

I think the IH Clone would be the ticket. Being in the states I didn't want to deal with import taxes and whatnot, and it was on backorder.