[zax15uk]

A low cost plotter is best for vinyl, I like the US Cutter machines for the value (~$200) and quality. They're much faster and more transportable if that's a concern.

Not all sign vinyl is PVC (as it's name would suggest) which you should definitely avoid on a laser, some is actually polyester which is perfectly safe.

Zax.

[zax15uk]

look for paint mask...
Avery Specialty Series from Beacon Graphic Systems
http://www.signsplusbanners.com/viny...mask-vinyl.php

and since I mentioned US Cutter...
http://www.uscutter.com/ORACAL-Paint...nyl_c_275.html

Zax.

[bpoulin]

I think this would work too, it's a temporary vinyl, with removable adhesive.

[evans]

I think I have enough information now to draw some conclusions.
First though I'll outline what I'm trying to achieve and the perceived pitfalls.
I'm trying to create clearcoat carbon fibre panels with, white gold and copper script or designs.
There are four major areas that I saw as difficult, manufacture of the carbon fibre panel, a clearcoat finish that would be UV and marine environment stable,cutting out script and designs accurately with fine detail, and an adhesive that would hold the metal foils to the carbon in extreme conditions.
The carbon fibre I know how to make from my work experience ( it's not easy but anyone with time to experiment could sort it out ).
The best boatpainters in Europe are painting the boat I'm working on, Awlgrip G line is the best finish but it cannot be cut back so you have to get it right off the gun. There is another Awlgrip clear that can be cut back and is good, also there is a Du pont clear that can be cut back and is good. According to them these are the alternatives.
For script it seems a vinyl cutter and masking vinyl is the way to go.
Adhesives I have yet to investigate.
As for lasers it seems the cheap Chinese ones can be bootstrapped up to perform but if you want an economical off the shelf laser that will do what you want straight away Full Spectrum seem to be the way to go.

[Tweakie]

As for lasers it seems the cheap Chinese ones can be bootstrapped up to perform but if you want an economical off the shelf laser that will do what you want straight away Full Spectrum seem to be the way to go.

Evans,


Evans,

You keep repeating this but I am really not sure that it is correct.
The cheap Chinese machines (and the FSE is also a cheap Chinese machine) are only just up to spec and there is little, if any, room for improvement in their performance. They do what they do and that's it.

Tweakie.

[evans]

Since I don't need a laser immediately to continue with my project. I would prefer to build a laser myself, it would be far more satisfying and I could customize it to do what I want.
So if the cheap lasers are not a good option how do I go about finding out what choices there are and what the pro and cons are of the different powers and types of lasers, etc ?
Are there any books that cover these questions ?
Since the metal foil cutting wouldn't be necessary I would be thinking of laser engraving timber. I custom make furniture and if I could get a laser engraved image onto a tabletop for instance that has interesting potential.

[cinematic2]

We are company building custom lasers from Poland.
If you make decission to build your own machine we may help with Synrad RF lasers and know-how.

Regards
Wojciech Bialek
[email protected]

[fullspeceng]

Evans,

You keep repeating this but I am really not sure that it is correct.
The cheap Chinese machines (and the FSE is also a cheap Chinese machine) are only just up to spec and there is little, if any, room for improvement in their performance. They do what they do and that's it.

Tweakie.

Seems like there are a lot of misleading facts here (chair).

We have a New Zealand dealer for our products, Lee Watson. He will service all your machine and parts. Email us for his contact info. This is better than any other option for you for a dealer that is not in your country.

Our machines come with 100% USA software/electronics with a majority of the parts designed in the USA. As mentioned previously, we have a full 3D CAD model for the entire machine and every screw/nut/bolt. We may reuse locally available parts and assembly from our partner factories to reduce cost but the design is 100% ours. The unique XY axis is an example of a custom designed part that is not in any other laser (unless copied). We carry all replacement parts in Las Vegas, NV USA for immediately replacement.

We started selling only the low cost units but we now also sell higher end machines with RF laser tubes (Coherent/Synrad/other), fiber lasers from IPG/SPI, and UV 355nm q-switched lasers. We can handle all your laser needs. We have a new world renowned PhD laser physicist working for us and continually develop new products.

We can even repair RF boards and gas refill most RF excited laser tubes (Coherent Diamonds, Synrad J48s, most ULS tubes).

Advice from people that are not experts in the field is fun but of limited use.

Our advice is see it in action before you buy if possible (call the New Zealand dealer or visit us in Las Vegas). Seeing is believing.

We offer a 30 day guarantee (minus shipping / handling) and stand behind our product 100% when used for its intended purposes.

[Tweakie]

Since I don't need a laser immediately to continue with my project. I would prefer to build a laser myself, it would be far more satisfying and I could customize it to do what I want.
So if the cheap lasers are not a good option how do I go about finding out what choices there are and what the pro and cons are of the different powers and types of lasers, etc ?
Are there any books that cover these questions ?
Since the metal foil cutting wouldn't be necessary I would be thinking of laser engraving timber. I custom make furniture and if I could get a laser engraved image onto a tabletop for instance that has interesting potential.

Evans,

You disappoint me - I had thought you would buy the FSE just to see how good it really was

Seriously though "Sams Laser FAQ" Sam's Laser FAQ: Welcome Page is a good source of information about all things laser with many links to authoritave articles and other relevant websites. Guarantee you will get fed up reading long before you run out of information here.
Building your own laser will not come cheap - in my case I spread the build over 7 months, sourcing many 'second user' parts when available. It's a good way to learn.


Tweakie.

[cinematic2]

Evans,

You disappoint me - I had thought you would buy the FSE just to see how good it really was

I think so. You should buy PSE. You will be the first one :banana:

[evans]

Thanks for the link.
I believe that the questions I'm asking are the same ones that a lot of potential laser buyers would ask so a way through the maze will I think be very appreciated.
What is "not cheap" in ballpark figures ?
Is it feasible to make a laser bed that would sit on a table top and engrave a chessboard, backgammon board, scrabble board, monopoly board, logo, picture or what have you. Covering an area of up to 650 x 650 mm.
Is the radiation ultra violet as with my TIG welder or is it something more nasty like microwave radiation ?

[zax15uk]

Our machines come with 100% USA software/electronics... yada yada yada

The software is 100% USA. The motor driver and controller are 100% USA assembled perhaps (the components used are most certainly not, but ok).

The motors, switches, laser PSU and tube must not be considered 'electronics' by PhD's I guess.

electronic device - definition of electronic device by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

I am not saying your product isn't superior, it clearly is and I've stated that many times and even recommended it over the direct import but let's keep it real.

Zax.

[cinematic2]

Is it feasible to make a laser bed that would sit on a table top and engrave ... logo, picture or what have you. Covering an area of up to 650 x 650 mm.
Is the radiation ultra violet as with my TIG welder or is it something more nasty like microwave radiation ?

Hundreds of people makes it own laser machine. Nothing special.
You only need good plan, good laser, user friendly driver and some electronic skill.
As for lasers. There is no any kind of bad radiation accept termal (invisible) beam radiation.

[Tweakie]

Thanks for the link.
I believe that the questions I'm asking are the same ones that a lot of potential laser buyers would ask so a way through the maze will I think be very appreciated.
What is "not cheap" in ballpark figures ?
Is it feasible to make a laser bed that would sit on a table top and engrave a chessboard, backgammon board, scrabble board, monopoly board, logo, picture or what have you. Covering an area of up to 650 x 650 mm.
Is the radiation ultra violet as with my TIG welder or is it something more nasty like microwave radiation ?

Evans,

This is how I did it Tweakie.CNC - CO2 Laser Cutting.
and you will see that there was quite a lot of work involved. My machine is a compromise and the laser is really just an addition to an existing wood router but the machine can cut sign vinyl, route wood and laser engrave etc. just by changing cutting heads. For a purpose built laser machine with full constructional details and parts supply check out Bart's site buildlog.net - CNC Laser Buildlogs

Tweakie.

[evans]

I was thinking along the same lines, of being able to use the same basis for cnc routing as well as laser engraving it's good to know it is feasible.
To incorporate a third axis I'd need to lower and raise the cutting head rather than the bed, would this affect the accuracy of the laser.
What are the advantages of the third axis ?
We are insanely busy as we finish the boat for pre race trials so I don't have time to research the various options now.
I'm expecting to go vinyl plotter/cutter and masking for my carbon fibre work so that that can proceed and look into building a cnc router laser engraver up the track.
I have found gold that is thicker and can be cut on a vinyl plotter. The down side is the cost of the material and whether because of the thickness there will be a "thumbnail effect" where you can feel the different thicknesses after clearcoating.
Thanks again for all the advice and help

[cinematic2]

Lowering and raising the cutting bed is much better solution for engraving quality. It makes your laser path more stable. Z-axis of laser path should be as short as possible.
This is because vibrations made by moving mechanism.
As for making router and laser engraver on the same basis.
It is possible but there is one problem.
For routing you use ballscrew because you need stability and power.
For laser engraving that is many times quicker better solution is timing belt.

[evans]

Your answer is what I expected to hear.
Since I would be using the laser to engrave decorative panels for furniture or embellishing and customizing coffee table or dining table tops there is no way I could adjust the bed height. What effects and detail can be achieved with two axis ?
Is there software that could drive a vinyl plotter or laser or cnc router by plugging the outlet into the desired set up. Obviously if that is so then the cost of various options is less and not as complicated.
The pictures are of an island cooktop I made for a custom kitchen in American Samoa. The carvings were hand done by a local carver. Obviously to duplicate that particular effect I would need to use a cnc router.
To fill in the why of my researching all this. For the past decade I've been traveling all over the world working on superyacht or racing yacht projects.
I'm fed up with living in temporary accommodation for months or in some times years.
I'm looking to go home and work boatbuilding while I establish a cottage industry producing clearcoat carbon fibre and gold plaques, etc for boatowners.
Also to go back to custom furniture building which I did in the past. The hope is that the products will stimulate enough demand that I can drop boatbuilding and work full time on my own again. There's only one way to see if this will work, suck it and see. With custom one off stuff though versatility is essential.

[bpoulin]

The problem is, if you want a machine that is capable of everything, it will be excelent at none. Because you'll have to compromise somewhere. If you are truly wanting to make a living at this, get a dedicated machine for each thing. It will make the quality of your products better, of course in the begining quality will be more based on your ability, however that will change as you learn.

[cinematic2]

bpoulin you are 100% right.

[Rodney Gold]

The chinese sell both cheap lasers and cheap CnC overhead routers , for less than the price of a small "mainstream" laser , you can buy both (and they aren't as bad as some would like to make out , they do work quite well)
The scope of work you can do with the 2 machines in combination is enormous. I would not try and reinvent the wheel in a DIY build, and would most certainly not try a do it all type machine. If there was a Do it all machine available , I and many others would have bought one long time ago.
As with any business endevour , the tools you use are merely that , tools , making a living requires a lot more than just having the tools, you need to market your services and find the niche you want to be in. One of the prime questions to ask yourself is "why would a customer use ME over anyone else?"