[JasonR]

Hello,
I have an older HRT-210 indexer. Brush style.



Recently purchased a 2000 VF-3 and was told it was pre-wired for the 4th axis, which it is but was told it was for the brush style indexers. Was told this by the seller and by Haas when I called them to verify the options prior to the sale. Now I am looking in the control cabinet and it looks like the 4th axis might be set up for the brush-less style indexers. I am in no means an expert so I have come to ask you Haas guru's to set me straight.



Let me know if I am misunderstanding this. In the end I want to run my 210 on the VF-3. Am I going to need to reconfigure something?

Jason

[ToyMaker94566]

I'm in the same boat, I have a couple of model year 2000 mills. I was told I have a brush type rotary table and indexer but my drive board is the same as yours. The best way to know what you have is to look at your plug end on your rotary. If you have a single large connection, then you have a brush type rotary. If you have two smaller connections, then you have a brushless type rotary. I have both types in my shop and the brushless uses two cables instead of one large single connection. Hope that helps.

I was looking at the HAAS website and it appears that there is an even newer third generation high speed drive available.

[JasonR]

I'm in the same boat, I have a couple of model year 2000 mills. I was told I have a brush type rotary table and indexer but my drive board is the same as yours. I just the best way to know is to look at your plug end on your rotary. If you have a single large connection, then you have a brush type servo. If you have two smaller connections, then you have a brushless type rotary. I was looking at the HAAS website and it appears that there is an even new third generation high speed drive available. Hope that helps.

So if I understand what your saying. If I have the big single connection and I am physically able to connect my brush style indexer to the cabinet then I am good to go? I hope so because I do believe that is what connection is on the cabinet. I'll have to check when I get back to the shop tomorrow.

[ToyMaker94566]

So if I understand what your saying. If I have the big single connection and I am physically able to connect my brush style indexer to the cabinet then I am good to go? I hope so because I do believe that is what connection is on the cabinet. I'll have to check when I get back to the shop tomorrow.

I edit my previous post to be a little more clear but to answer your Q, Yes. If it connects it's correct.

[JasonR]

I edit my previous post to be a little more clear but to answer your Q, Yes. If it connects it's correct.

Thanks!

[JasonR]

Looks like it should be good to go with the brush style indexer.

Thanks again for the replies.

[ToyMaker94566]

Yep, that's the brush type connection...

This is what the high speed brushless type connection looks like.
There are two cables in this case to communicate with the rotary.

[rawen2]

So does anyone know why the 4th servo driver in the picture says "brushless" on the metal case? Pretty confusing...

Ralph

[Donkey Hotey]

So does anyone know why the 4th servo driver in the picture says "brushless" on the metal case? Pretty confusing...

Haas can convert the signal to 'brush-type' by installing a proper cable / wire harness and a transformer. That's probably just out of view, on the bottom of the cabinet.

[Machineit]

So does anyone know why the 4th servo driver in the picture says "brushless" on the metal case? Pretty confusing...

Ralph

What is on the metal case does not necessarily indicate what is inside. My 96 is also a brushless mill, but the 4th axis servo is brush or brushless and the machine is wired for brush type rotary's. If you have the 17 pin amp connector you should be ready to go for a brush rotary.

I read somewhere that the only difference between brush and brushless servos is one resister that must be added or removed. It is the rest of the machines wiring that really makes the difference.

Mike

[rawen2]

Donkey and Machineit,
Thanks for the information. I don't have a Haas (or any other CNC) but have been reading this forum for a several years trying to learn all I can so I can make an informed decision when I'm finally ready to get one for my garage/shop.
I had always assumed that there would be quite a difference between the brush and brushless amps because the brush type are DC motors and the brushless are AC motors. Or am I mistaken about that?
Thanks,
Ralph

[gizmo_454]

I am certainly no expert, but we just got in a 2002 VF2SS and had a similar question. It was sold as prewired for brushless 4th axis, however, it has the same single plug pictured above. We too have the brushless amp for the 4th. Hence my confusion. I did notice, though, in the bottom of the cabinet, on the left side, in front of the I/O board, there is a board that says Brush Induction Motor on it. The wires that come off of it, tie in to the plug along with the wires from the amp.

You may have something similar. I was told by my local HFO that I can make mine brushless by changing the cable and plug. Cost of roughly $200 for the cable. Ouch!

Oh well. I don't know if it will help or not, but that is what I have seen.

Good luck!

Mike

[Al_The_Man]

Donkey and Machineit,
I had always assumed that there would be quite a difference between the brush and brushless amps because the brush type are DC motors and the brushless are AC motors. Or am I mistaken about that?
Thanks,
Ralph

BLDC motors do resemble AC servo's almost exactly, quite different from DC brushed, the difference comes in how they are commutated and the drive.
With the majority of DCBL drives, they can be set for 60° commutation for brushed motors rather than the common 120° phase angle commutation used with BLDC.
The first two of the three phase motor lines are used to power the DC brushed motors.
The BLDC motor is often likened to a DC brushed motor turned inside out.
http://users.tinyworld.co.uk/flecc/4...otor031102.swf
Al.

[haastec]

The "Brushless" servo amp has no correlation to the 4th axis. On a lot of machines that same amp will run any of the axis X,Y,Z, A, and/or B. Newer machines can run larger servo amps for different axis which cannot be interchangeable.

The brush rotary setup will include a transformer circuit usually at the bottom of the electrical cabinet.

Bottom line, if you have 1 large cable connection at the side of the cabinet you have a brush rotary setup. If you have 2 cable connections at the side of the cabinet then you are setup for a brushless rotary.

[gizmo_454]

The brush rotary setup will include a transformer circuit usually at the bottom of the electrical cabinet.

Yeah! Yeah! That's what we have in our VF2SS! That being the case, can a simple cable/plug change be made inside the cabinet to change from brushed to brushless? We have an HA5CB and would like to be able to use it with this mill.

Thx,
Mike