[Tormachmaster]

I am searching for a smaller cnc lathe i regret buying a huge clausing my power source barley makes it and it is just taking too much room up in my shop top that off by I am sure that I will loose my butt selling it anyway Tormach here is the first beg for you to make one soon real soon I looked at 12/36 and 13/40 cnc converted lathes around 7500 they look pretty good and I am sure will do the job but i would rathe see all Tormach names on my equipment

[rowbare]

From the time machine: Tormach Lathe Developments « Milling Around

bob

[R.DesJardin]

Yes,
They did post up about one, asking for opinions, metioned slant bed design with a tool carousel. I would bet it won't be 12x36 though. We have a couple "big" Hardinge CNC lathes and they might have a big swing but no way 36" length.
I beg too, maybe for late summer, early fall so I can save up some coin.
Maybe 6" x 12"-20". Don't want the machine to be too big or expensive.
The Haas TL-1 is big but not what I want.
We have a 20yr old Servo/Hardinge CNC lathe, it has an air piston bar feeder that wil feed 3/4" IIRC. It is actually a polishing Lathe with CNC contols on it. Something that size with a Tool Carousel would be ideal. It uses 5C collets but you can still mount a chuck on it just like a Hardinge Toolroom Lathe.
If it capable of having the bar feeder, it wouldn't be of much use to me. I want something that can easily make small parts with out tool changes.

[dbrija]

Forgive me for posting this in the Tormach forum, but see NL-150 Shop Series CNC Lathe

Right along the lines of what Tormach is working on.

Personally I'm waiting for the Tormach version, using the Duality as a stop gap until it comes out.

[Don Clement]

Forgive me for posting this in the Tormach forum, but see NL-150 Shop Series CNC Lathe

Right along the lines of what Tormach is working on.

Personally I'm waiting for the Tormach version, using the Duality as a stop gap until it comes out.

No thanks on the NL-150... MT4 taper and 1” bore means no 5C capability. I’ll wait for Tormach if there is going to be 5C capability on the Tormach lathe. Otherwise a Microkinetics CNC conversion for my 12x36 manual lathe or Haas TL1. Cataract (Hardinge) had it right with 5C on all their lathes way back. Work holding is very important on any lathe and also the mill. In addition 5C collets are cheap, readily available, come in round, pot chuck type, hex , internally expanding, and emergency collets which can be user modified (such as the brass threaded one I just made) Real lathes like Hardinge have 5C capability. Here's a vintage Cataract 9" with 5C capability http://www.metalworking.com/RCM-gall...Jim/Nshop5.jpg BTW I also use 5C collet holding on my Tormach PCNC. Also a cam lock or tapered type spindle and NOT a threaded spindle so that one could turn with the spindle running CW.

Don

[Tormachmaster]

Forgive me for posting this in the Tormach forum, but see NL-150 Shop Series CNC Lathe

Right along the lines of what Tormach is working on.

Personally I'm waiting for the Tormach version, using the Duality as a stop gap until it comes out.

That is pretty expensive for what you get I see alot of machines for a few thousand that are stepper but also can be used manually.

[twocik]

"That is pretty expensive for what you get I see alot of machines for a few thousand that are stepper but also can be used manually."


I agree !


BTW here's a cool DIY to check out, drool .....

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1IDHIcyHLY"]YouTube - Scratch built CNC Slantbed Lathe - RUNNING![/nomedia]

[Tormachmaster]

"That is pretty expensive for what you get I see alot of machines for a few thousand that are stepper but also can be used manually."


I agree !


BTW here's a cool DIY to check out, drool .....

YouTube - Scratch built CNC Slantbed Lathe - RUNNING!

Very nice job would like to see that one produced.

[Don Clement]

Gee for the price of the NL-150 one could get a Microkinetics 13"x40" CNC lathe with a six position turret. CNC Lathe Model 1236 - lathe, lathes, turning machine, turning machines - Also 5C collet capable and camlock spindle. Still waiting for what Tormach will offer in a CNC lathe though.

Don

[pete from TN]

I am right with ya on the 12x36 cnc lathe... I have a 12x36 asian lathe and it has been one of the better machine I have purchased so far. It is not a monster but can cut larger parts with relative ease. It also has the D1-4 camlock headstock and that is really nice. I have yet to get a 5c collet setup for it but that is in the cards at some point. I have often thought of converting it to cnc myself as I think it would be capable of some good work. I only have issues with it when I try to take a deep cut on the outer edge of a large workpiece. It does not have enough power to hog when you have a large piece in there. I may put a larger motor on it and setup a vfd for it. I think it would be a great little lathe and I had never seen that toolchanger that microkinetics makes for it before. That would make for a really cool lathe for sure... peace...

Pete

[twocik]

Don nice find, looks very promising, but not enough information on the product. They differently need to show how the hexagons were cut, more video in higher def., but the accessories are awesome ! The 4 tool ATP is a great idea !!

[Don Clement]

Pete,

I have been using a manual 12x36 import lathe for about 10 years and am looking perhaps to convert it to CNC. I added a Royal pneumatic 5C closer that works extremely well. Also I make use of the D1-4 camlock spindle for things like threading using the reverse helix method where the spindle runs in reverse and the feed is towards the tailstock so I can thread internal RH threads at very high speed up from a blind shoulder. A threaded spindle will not allow using the reverse helix threading because one cannot run the spindle backwards with a threaded mounted chuck. Because the lathe has an imperial leadscrew metric threading becomes a PITA and one can't use the threading dial or disengage the half-nut. So CNC conversion has it's attraction for me in threading metric or imperial interchangeably and since I could use all of my existing tooling. Also have a KDK QC toolpost with about 20 bars that make changing tools as fast as using the TTS system with the PDB on my PCNC mill.
Lately the existing 1.5hp single phase motor has begun to not start always and has not much power for heavier cuts ( I did replace the start and run caps) so I am seriously thinking of upgrading to a VFD controlled 3-phase motor. The VFD will also give better surface finish with it's turbine-like smoothness. I am still waiting for what Tormach has to offer though in a CNC lathe.

Don

I think it would be capable of some good work. I only have issues with it when I try to take a deep cut on the outer edge of a large workpiece. It does not have enough power to hog when you have a large piece in there. I may put a larger motor on it and setup a vfd for it. I think it would be a great little lathe and I had never seen that toolchanger that microkinetics makes for it before. That would make for a really cool lathe for sure... peace...

Pete

[pete from TN]

Funny that is about exactly my experience with this lathe. It is also almost ten years old and runs great. In fact I was just out in the shop running it to redo my Ballnut mount for my Lathemaster CNC conversion. The factory cast iron mount broke on me so I am making a VERY heavy duty replacement from solid steel. I cannot currently use the mill so I am doing all of the machining in my four jaw chuck. I just finished the final machining of the block and I also went with a much larger SHCS, A 5/8-18 fine thread screw that is around 2" long. SO I had to remachine my IH Z axis Mod inspired bushing to accept that monster screw. Putting it next to the original metric one it absolutely dwarfs it. I hope this and the more solid rigid mount will fix this once and for all.

As far as the lathe is concerned, the only real problem I have had in almost ten years of running this machine was the switch for the apron mounted lever to turn the motor on and off and reverse it broke on me. I took it apart and repaired it without any drama and it has been working great ever since. This Lathe would make a GREAT CNC lathe and if you can get that toolchanger like that or even just as you said using the nice QCTP that most have would make for a really cool setup. I made my own QCTP a long time ago and have been using it for years now. I kinda wish I had the Aloris type sometimes but it has never been an issue really so I just have not gotten one. I suppose at some point I will get some extra cash and indulge myself with a set but who knows....

I have seen a couple guys do a conversion on one and it would be really pretty easy I think. Just two axes and the spindle encoder and you would have it. I would probably want to put the ballscrew on the back of the apron for the long axis so it is not getting covered with crap all the time. Sure would be nice to lose the feed and threading screws in front too since they would not be necessary anymore. The machine is heavy duty enough to do some nice work even in steel and that Microkinetics machine looks pretty good. I would probably just roll my own conversion tho... Peace


Pete

[Tormachmaster]

Gee for the price of the NL-150 one could get a Microkinetics 13"x40" CNC lathe with a six position turret. CNC Lathe Model 1236 - lathe, lathes, turning machine, turning machines - Also 5C collet capable and camlock spindle. Still waiting for what Tormach will offer in a CNC lathe though.

Don

This is what I am looking at.

[Don Clement]

I look upon my collection of existing lathe tools on existing KDK bars similar to my collection of TTS tools in that I don't have an ATC but with the power draw bar comes very close. The KDK QCTP works as good on the lathe as the PDB does on the Tormach mill with TTS toolholders. One reason why I would consider a CNC conversion or a CNC lathe with similar capabilities which would include a tailstock and follow rest. I don't really see threading long slender SS leadscrews as shown by threadmilling on the Tormach PCNC. An advantage of CNC would be to eliminate the compound slide. Threading could be done by alternating cutting the flanks of full profile threading tool. This is certainly a lathe job.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...Threading2.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...Threading1.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...Threading3.jpg

Here are some of the existing tools for my KDK QCTP. There are quite a few more that are not shown.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...5inBBKDK5B.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...inBBKDK155.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...gbarKDK101.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...TKDK156bar.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1.../BoringBar.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...larCutter2.jpg

The DoGrip cutoff tool really works great.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...KDK1010Bar.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...DoGripChip.jpg

Here are some pictures of my Val-Cut trepanning tool for my lathe. The last shows a part that has been trepanned.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1.../ValCutKDK.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...tKDK151Bar.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...panning1-1.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...repanning2.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...repanning3.jpg

[dbrija]

Gee for the price of the NL-150 one could get a Microkinetics 13"x40" CNC lathe with a six position turret. CNC Lathe Model 1236 - lathe, lathes, turning machine, turning machines - Also 5C collet capable and camlock spindle. Still waiting for what Tormach will offer in a CNC lathe though.

Don

I should have looked at the Microkinetics before I opened my mouth. No comparison. NL what?

[pete from TN]

Hey man that is a nice unit. Never seen one of those before. I like that it is low profile and beefy. How do you set center height on those tools? I do not see an adjustment knurled nut on top like the aloris...

I would think that if you went and did a conversion on that lathe you could loose the compound and just put a large steel lift block under that nice toolpost for more rigidity... That would make for some nice CNC lathe man...,.thanks for posting the pics.. I take it that holder is expensive>>>? peace

Pete

[Don Clement]

Here is the KDK catalog. http://www.kdktools.com/catalog.PDF One sets the height by a recessed setscrew. Also the handle on a KDK is on the side out of the way, not on top as in the Aloris. In addition to the rigidity and repeatability , the clean design of KDK free of obstructing screws and knobs is one of the things I really like about KDK. Yes KDK is pricey compared to imports , however KDK was originally made in South Gate, California since the 1950s and hasn't changed the design so there are lots of used bars and QCTPs out here on the West coast. One nice thing about KDK is that the different sized tool bars fit on different size tool posts. The interchangeability of Bars makes KDK way adaptable. Also there are Chicom clone bars available only the first thing I do is trash the import setscrews that come in the clones and replace with quality USA made Holo-Krome setscrews. Holo-Krome Fasteners
Same with my Allen wrench tools I have only USA Bondus or German Wiha. BTW the only other QCTP I would consider is the Swiss Multifix http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...t_multifix.jpg

Don

Oh Yeah most KDK bars are double sided so one usually has two tools mounted on one bar, i.e. a facing tool on one side and a turning tool on the other. All one has to do is flip the bar over to use the other tool. So KDK typically doubles your toolholders. Also both sides have independent height adjustments. However I use 80 degree diamond type inserts such as CNMG so that I can turn and face with the same tool. For example I might use a CNMG insert in a boring bar and bore a hole , then come out and with the same boring bar face the part I just bored.

Hey man that is a nice unit. Never seen one of those before. I like that it is low profile and beefy. How do you set center height on those tools? I do not see an adjustment knurled nut on top like the aloris...

I would think that if you went and did a conversion on that lathe you could loose the compound and just put a large steel lift block under that nice toolpost for more rigidity... That would make for some nice CNC lathe man...,.thanks for posting the pics.. I take it that holder is expensive>>>? peace

Pete

[MadMax]

After being disappointed with a Syil C6 I have moved onto used industrial CNC heavy machinery. Certainly not a reasonable decision for a desktop purchase (unless your desktop can support a ton or two), but a reasonable decision considering the cost of used machinery and the significant capabilities you get when you buy something serious.

With $9k you could get a pretty decent used Hardinge lathe with an Accuslide CNC upgrade or even a CHNC with a lot of life left in it and a 12 position tool changer that moves pretty quick. It would be 5c collet ready (damn I think those guys set the standard on those) and it'd be ready to go with gang tools. Normally, one wouldn't expect new equipment makers to have to compete with the used market, but with so many used machines going out at such good prices, it's only a matter of time for hobbyists to start looking at comparably priced gear that sets high standards for the iron. Now I almost always buy used industrial gear over new hobby grade gear.

I think a good price point for a hobby CNC lathe would be between $4-$6k. That would be a bit too low for anything that would still be worth buying in the used industrial market. Items like tool turrets should be optional because they would add significant cost that most users wouldn't really need. In my mind it makes the most sense to have a wedge style toolpost on a desktop sized lathe. Tool turrets are great for higher production, but they're relatively crashy. A turret bristling with chucks and boring bars is pretty prone to a crash compared to a wedge toolpost which holds a single tool holder. Using programs calls to instruct the operator to call a preset tool isn't too bad. Besides, without an automatic drawbar and a bar feeder, how much production can you do on a desktop? You could jury rig a spring loaded bar pusher and spin a pneumatic chuck, but the pneumatic chuck adds cost to the base build again.

It seems to me that a reasonable build for the hobbyist would be fairly small. Perhaps a swing of up to 8" with a 5C collet (1.625" bar pass would be great!). Center to center spacing not longer than 18" and a lot of X travel to facilitate the use of gang tools. Gang tools are pretty easy to set up, and if you offer a good spindle encoder package with a spindle brake, you could even offer live tooling options which could be pretty cool. The user could easily homebrew low power live tools by bolting in a high torque Foredom handpiece. All we would need is a relay board and some M codes. The difficult stuff is a spindle encoder and a spindle brake.

Turrets are great, but they're actually a pain in the arse for prototyping. 6 stations wouldn't be able to hold all of the tools I commonly use on my manual lathe. I could get a lot more use from having 10 tools touched in on wedge blocks and changing them manually than I would with 6 tools in a turret that I would have to keep changing out and touching in (and setting height) for the usual sub 20pc prototyping jobs I'd do on a benchtop. For light production, gang tools typically index faster than non production turrets. Also, if you have a set of frequently run jobs and you don't mind spending some cash on very fast setups, you can change out gang tool plates so the individual tools can rapidly be changed out by bolting them to the same plate. It's kind of awesome being able to thunk down a dowel pinned plate with 6 tools already in the CNC tool crib. Try that with a turret.

[Tormachmaster]

After being disappointed with a Syil C6 I have moved onto used industrial CNC heavy machinery. Certainly not a reasonable decision for a desktop purchase (unless your desktop can support a ton or two), but a reasonable decision considering the cost of used machinery and the significant capabilities you get when you buy something serious.

With $9k you could get a pretty decent used Hardinge lathe with an Accuslide CNC upgrade or even a CHNC with a lot of life left in it and a 12 position tool changer that moves pretty quick. It would be 5c collet ready (damn I think those guys set the standard on those) and it'd be ready to go with gang tools. Normally, one wouldn't expect new equipment makers to have to compete with the used market, but with so many used machines going out at such good prices, it's only a matter of time for hobbyists to start looking at comparably priced gear that sets high standards for the iron. Now I almost always buy used industrial gear over new hobby grade gear.

I think a good price point for a hobby CNC lathe would be between $4-$6k. That would be a bit too low for anything that would still be worth buying in the used industrial market. Items like tool turrets should be optional because they would add significant cost that most users wouldn't really need. In my mind it makes the most sense to have a wedge style toolpost on a desktop sized lathe. Tool turrets are great for higher production, but they're relatively crashy. A turret bristling with chucks and boring bars is pretty prone to a crash compared to a wedge toolpost which holds a single tool holder. Using programs calls to instruct the operator to call a preset tool isn't too bad. Besides, without an automatic drawbar and a bar feeder, how much production can you do on a desktop? You could jury rig a spring loaded bar pusher and spin a pneumatic chuck, but the pneumatic chuck adds cost to the base build again.

It seems to me that a reasonable build for the hobbyist would be fairly small. Perhaps a swing of up to 8" with a 5C collet (1.625" bar pass would be great!). Center to center spacing not longer than 18" and a lot of X travel to facilitate the use of gang tools. Gang tools are pretty easy to set up, and if you offer a good spindle encoder package with a spindle brake, you could even offer live tooling options which could be pretty cool. The user could easily homebrew low power live tools by bolting in a high torque Foredom handpiece. All we would need is a relay board and some M codes. The difficult stuff is a spindle encoder and a spindle brake.

Turrets are great, but they're actually a pain in the arse for prototyping. 6 stations wouldn't be able to hold all of the tools I commonly use on my manual lathe. I could get a lot more use from having 10 tools touched in on wedge blocks and changing them manually than I would with 6 tools in a turret that I would have to keep changing out and touching in (and setting height) for the usual sub 20pc prototyping jobs I'd do on a benchtop. For light production, gang tools typically index faster than non production turrets. Also, if you have a set of frequently run jobs and you don't mind spending some cash on very fast setups, you can change out gang tool plates so the individual tools can rapidly be changed out by bolting them to the same plate. It's kind of awesome being able to thunk down a dowel pinned plate with 6 tools already in the CNC tool crib. Try that with a turret.

The reason I am looking at the smaller hobby microkinetics cnc converted lathe is it is for my very small shop at home just a shop to do prototype projects i do have access to many cnc machines.