[trevj1]

Looking at a cent V control on a Partner 4.

Appears to have a 4 digit serial number, -B control on it. (not able to access it right now).

It has video card 'issues'. May be something simple. May be not so much. Old tech, anyway.

I have some experience dealing with a similar machine. Not going in blind, at least, not completely.

Wondering if anyone has gone the "full upgrade" route from Milltronics of late, and roughly what were the prices like. From a few posts here, the control and pendant package is around $2K. Is this playing out correctly? Plug and Play? DIY or need a tech to install?

Pondering whether 'tis better to look at a new control package, or to play some jiggery pokery with the computer that runs the Cent V and build a replacement with a single card computer and a ISA equipped backplane. Anyone ever used one of them? Seems a real option to get more than just one or two ISA slots on a computer these days.

Wondering how seamless it might be if a fella dropped the simdisk onto a backplane along with the controller cards and started it up.

Cheers
Trev

[ZZZZ]

I think the $2000 figure is for the SingleBoardComputer kit installed by Milltronics. Be aware that not all SBC cards will work for this application, so you would probably should let them do the upgrade for you.

They install and configure the SBC and check out the Acroloops for you.

The LCD front panel kits generally are a straight forward installation that you can do yourself.

[trevj1]

Any guesses as to the reasons that some cards will work while other won't?

This is a hobby effort. I don't think flying a tech out to the boondocks is in the (visa) cards.

Worst case see's the machine equipped with a full retrofit and Mach3, but if I can stick to the original control, costs will be held to the 'giggle' level. You know. Every time you think about how little you spent, you giggle. That kind of deal.

I ended up purchasing a machine that is a match for the one I use at work. I have done a bit of troubleshooting and repairs on the work machine, so am not going in blind. We had issues with the monitor, and replaced it with a color lcd, scabbed onto the front of the pendant. Other than the buttons no longer lining up with the screen, it has been a thousandfold improvement.

I was wondering if the machine can be run on single phase power. Seems the only thing that is native 3 phase is the spindle motor. For my purposes, swapping out the VFD for one that can run off single phase would be worthwhile. I can live with less HP, in exchange for ease of powering.

Meantime though, the plan is just to get it home, get it inside, and do some mucking about with the computer to see if I can get that part working correctly.

Cheers
Trev
Gonna have to have a long look at the books when it arrives here!

[franchcnc]

I may know where you can get a Cent V control that was in working order when removed from a Partner IV about 1 year ago. The iron was scrapped due to availability of parts. Not sure how the cmos and simdisk batteries are, it may have lost settings. I will check it out this week to see if it is a "B" card cage. PM me if interested.

[thebodger@roger]

trevj:
I used to work for the dealer that first imported these mills to Canada, back in the early 90's. I installed and seviced a bunch of partner mills across southern Ontario for about 5 years. I had a pretty good knowledge of the whole CNC system on these machines. If I was in your position with this mill, I would be serious about getting the existing centurian control working. If it's a bad video card you suspect, then maybe no big deal. Ebay or some of the downtown Toronto computer recyclers can help. As far as converting to Mach 3, I think I'd rather have the centurian. Why? The centurian is a true closed loop servo setup, Mach is not. Mach can't control spindle speed in it's out of the box form. Mach is a step-direction output to the driver. Centurian is a analouge output, so you have more needed hardware, if it will even work.
As far as lost firmware because of dead batteries, Milltronics may have the files you need. They used to be very helpful when I was working with them.
Good luck with the machine. They weren't bad units for the money.

[trevj1]

trevj:
I used to work for the dealer that first imported these mills to Canada, back in the early 90's. I installed and seviced a bunch of partner mills across southern Ontario for about 5 years. I had a pretty good knowledge of the whole CNC system on these machines. If I was in your position with this mill, I would be serious about getting the existing centurian control working. If it's a bad video card you suspect, then maybe no big deal. Ebay or some of the downtown Toronto computer recyclers can help. As far as converting to Mach 3, I think I'd rather have the centurian. Why? The centurian is a true closed loop servo setup, Mach is not. Mach can't control spindle speed in it's out of the box form. Mach is a step-direction output to the driver. Centurian is a analouge output, so you have more needed hardware, if it will even work.
As far as lost firmware because of dead batteries, Milltronics may have the files you need. They used to be very helpful when I was working with them.
Good luck with the machine. They weren't bad units for the money.

Yeah. I'm pretty good with the idea that I'll put a pile of effort into the Cent V control before I give up on it. But I paid out based on the worst case scenario of getting the iron and screws at a pretty good price. Past that is bonus!
It worked well until the video crapped out. According to the guy they brought in to the shop to look at it, they "won't get this to work without replacing everything". Pretty much means to me that the guy either didn't know what he was doing, or just didn't want to muck with it. They were real happy with the way it ran until then.

So... Troubleshooting and mucking about with a 386, it is! I've been seeing the odd 386 around. Old AT desktops, mostly. A few motherboards and stripped out point of sale rigs too. I don't figure there will be too many issues with getting hold of suitable replacement parts, if I go that way.

I'm still pretty curious about the likelihood of it all running if the drive cards and Simdisk were to be pounded onto a backplane or other set of ISA slots, and what the hurdles might be to that working.

My first hurdle, after getting it home, is going to be getting it indoors, past a 6 1/2 foot garage door. Fun! Like (nuts) fun! Once it's in. I can pull the control box, strip out the cards, and start by making it work from there. Probably as good a time as any to be looking at the Simdisk battery, too.

Once I have it home, I'll start pestering the good folks at Milltronics to sort out the stuff I want or need, like parameters and the like. Gotta see if they show up with.
Exploring options, rather than making a hard plan.

Cheers
Trev

[LexLuthier]

Did they try plugging in a computer CRT monitor? We used to run a crt while we were waiting for the monitors to get fixed and returned.

[jpawelk]

Trev,
A control upgrade through Milltronics is roughly $1000. All that you need to do is send Milltronics the "black box" and they will update all the components inside to the latest SBC (single board computer). They will simply send back to you, and then you can install by yourself. Plug and play.
Milltronics also has LCD upgrades for the front panel as well. You can get exact costs by calling the parts department @ 952.442.1418.

[trevj1]

Thanks for that info, jpawelk.

As soon as I get this machine parked more or less at eye level, I'll be doing some poking and prodding. If I cannot get the computer up and running, then I start pestering Milltronics.

I got the manuals, and the Parameters disk. Gotta get it off the trailer, and indoors.

LexLuthier, I was pretty much set on grafting in a new monitor one way or another, just for the colour. Our machine at work is the same as this one, and is now running with a 17 inch monitor, a cast-off from our IT folks. Sure a nice step up from the small monochrome monitor that was there before!

franchcnc, if a need comes up, i'll keep you in mind. I am relatively comfortable with the idea that I can make this machine work again. I hope!


Cheers
Trev

[eddmead]

Just curious to see if you got anywhere with this project. I am looking at a similar situation.

[dresda]

I have a milltronics that's getting a bit long in the tooth, it's got a 386SX but still works. I have another mill that had a baffed out fagor 8025 so i stripped it and put on Mach3 with DSPMC motion controller big mistake, too many conflicts between Mach and the motion board vital systems and these guys don't undestand industrial machine tools. The other project is trying to run my Fanuc motors but I'm not going to talk about that one... So i was going to retro-fit the milltronics with mach3 & Motion board but I don't think it's a good idea.
Mach3 = $275
Motion = $1000.00
breakout boards = $500.00
Computer = $100.00
Monitor = $100.00
Hand held pendant = $175.00
A lot of time screwing around.
Ray.

[trevj1]

So....

In spite of the benefits of an upgrade, work went cheap and paid someone else to replace the SimDisk on ours.
So, a used refurb, cost us near $4K. Yech. Glad it's not my money. So much for cheap.

A new Simdisk if bought direct, is $1250 or so from Milltronics. Not sure if that's new new, or new refurbed. Anyway....

A complete new Cent V control is $1850 from Milltronics. Cheap enough that I wouldn't dick about with planting a new Simdisk on the same old 20 year old computer in the control if I was spending my money, and I see that exact route being followed as soon as I get some money together, too. For that kind of price, I definitely would not dick about with trying to convert to Mach. If I had to buy all the servos and motion control amps in addition, I might look at a control package, though.

Cheers
Trev

[ihbuilder]

Trevj1 , If I understand this right , you can buy a new cent V control from milltronics ? or is there an excange with the old 1 ? I have a partner V w/ cent IV control . I have contacted them about some info on it to no avail no longer supported then when I asked if I could buy a cent V control for it , No I have to buy the newest cent VII . I'm just a little confused on this .

Steve

[trevj1]

The $1850 quote was for an upgrade of a Cent V control to a new computer system, using the original motion control boards.

The Cent V box from the back of the machine has to be sent in and they install the single card computer, install the software, and test the motion cards, then return it.

I have no idea what they would do for a Cent IV control, or whether the motion control cards are compatible with such a route.

Your best bet is to phone them and speak to someone there. They were really helpful while I was troubleshooting the work machine, and I figure if you want to know for sure, you might as well speak with the source.

As and aside, the mill that I bought, the control works fine (used it to troubleshoot the work machine, and swapped it in entire, to check it for function) , and the video card is working too. Wahoo!!!:banana:

I suspect I will be going the full upgrade to the single card computer, as soon as I scrape together the required funds. The increase in memory is huge (from 750 or so kb, to 54 Meg) and the comfort factor of newer stuff than the 20+ year old computer running the show seems reasonable.

Cheers
Trev

[ihbuilder]

Hi Trevj1 , I just got of the phone with a very nice helpful lady in parts To upgrade mine is going to cost some $ She also told me there is some communication issues that the previous owner called in about and did not tell me :boxing: I'll have to get a hold of him and get the scoop . hopefully he has the decency to talk about it I'll use it for light simple stuff and look into getting a vmc later .

Steve

[sportybob]

I have posted here before and will do so again, when buying a used Milltronics machine, (or any machine) beaware about the age of the machine. " anything can be updated, but at what cost"
Centurion 4 (IV) controls, no longer supported----- contact me for some used parts. It can be updated to a Centurin 7 control.

Centurion 5 control serial numbers xxx (3 digits) Cat 900 system, not supported, newer boards not compatible. " beware of whats on "e-bay"
Centurion 5 -a control, Cat 900 parts mounted on a 286/ very earley 386 mother board. againg the boards are not compatible with newer controls, again beware of whats on "e-bay"

centurion 5 - B control, Here ya go. Fully updatable. It has version 2 arcoloop boards and simdisk. A current single oard control update, ( latest softeware, 64MB ram, 64MB program and parts storage, $1850.00, easy networked option, other options available. This is the C5 control to have.

If the control serial # does not have a "-b" it is best to stay away.
If the iron is really good, then a cat 900 or a "-A" machine would need to have a centurion 7 update (about $9000.00 + install) (call me - have tools, will travel)
All this means is that if the Cat 900 or -A control fails your options are limited.
But hey, just be aware of what "control parts" is for sale on "e-bay".

Centurion 6 controls are fully supported and can have the single board computer (SBC) update as listed above for the $1850.00 price. (memory and networking are optionial)

The SBC update does add a lot of functions and features for the $. I vote for the networking option above the 256MB option. (IMHO)

Questions? email me.
Sportybob