[CNCRim]

I just wondering what take America machine builder to so long to catch up with their counter part like Japanese and Germany even Korean? For example, the multiaxis lathe with Y-axis/5-axis, Mazak and Moki offered those futures 10 years and now Haas, Fadal(few name) just come out just with Y axis version..... Why? are we try keep think simple and economic or we don't have that capability. I double it 'cause we can go to the moon.

[RICHARD ZASTROW]

A little history here. Kearney & Trecker built a barfeeding combination CNC Lathe/ HMC in the 1980's. Called it "Partsmaker" So did Sundstrand about the same time.

There were many machines built in the USA that were too far ahead of their time.

There was a Gerber display at the NMTBA show, 1978 I think, where a probe followed a mans head and reproduced a bust in the next booth in real time. I know it can be done now, but that was 32 years ago.

And when did the Japanese or Chinese land their man on the moon and return them to earth?

Don't get me wrong, both the Japanese and Chinese as well as others are very capable of doing some original and advanced things. I just feel we aren't giving due credit to the originators.

Ask your self this, What have I done to advance the art?

Like my boss used to say, "I don't need problem identifiers, I need problem solvers."

Dick Z

ps: Both kearney & Trecker and Sundstrand are out of business; gone. Why? Could it be that those who question their demise buy cheap machines from countries whose governments subsidized their machine builders? And continue to do so?

[MILLMARK]

Hey Richard Z, I love your bosses line! Mind if I adopt it?

[GITERDUN]

I just wondering what take America machine builder to so long to catch up with their counter part like Japanese and Germany even Korean? For example, the multiaxis lathe with Y-axis/5-axis, Mazak and Moki offered those futures 10 years and now Haas, Fadal(few name) just come out just with Y axis version..... Why? are we try keep think simple and economic or we don't have that capability. I double it 'cause we can go to the moon.

Gee- maybe it's because people in the industry have the English skills of a 3rd grader.

[RICHARD ZASTROW]

GITIRDUN, There seems to be a lot of that going around. LOL

Seems nobody found that spell checker icon up there. We need a grammar checker as well.

Could basic education (or lack thereof) be part of the problem?

Dick Z

ps: MILLMARK, go for it. As I mentioned, I wasn't the author. LOL

[Eurisko]

Gee- maybe it's because people in the industry have the English skills of a 3rd grader.

CNCRim asked a valid question. And your criticism of the way the question was posted contributes nothing to the forum.

Did it occur to you that English may not be his native language?

[GITERDUN]

CNCRim asked a valid question. And your criticism of the way the question was posted contributes nothing to the forum.

Did it occur to you that English may not be his native language?

Why? are we try keep think simple and economic or we don't have that capability. I double it 'cause we can go to the moon.

If English isn't his native language, then who is this "WE" he's talking about?

[Geof]

Considering that Japanese machine builders probably don't speak or write fluent English I doubt that is a prerequisite for building advanced machines.

[Al_The_Man]

Considering that Japanese machine builders probably don't speak or write fluent English I doubt that is a prerequisite for building advanced machines.

Anyone who has tried to decifer the first Fanuc manuals will attest to that, which were basically transliterated rather than translated.
Al.

[Eurisko]

If English isn't his native language, then who is this "WE" he's talking about?

There's a process called immigration. Many red, white and blue Americans weren't born here. They came from other countries. Just as your ancestors probably did.

[skullworks]

The OP missed the fact that just because the product was not in the current product line does not mean that we can't produce it.

A manufacture is in the business of making products that will sell for profit. If the line offered is making a higher margin than certain other machine configurations which are less in demand and have a lower profit margin then the manufacturer is actually operating by sound business principles.

U.S. Business tend to target the mass markets and aim for high volume rather than niche markets.

Haas did not grow to its current size counting on 5 axis machines. It was the basic VF0 - VF2 that fueled growth.

Volkswagon sold bugs with very minor changes though the years because the market would buy all they made just as is. Sure they added other models, but the bus and bug was where the real production numbers were.

Never confuse the fact that what a business chooses to offer often has nothing to do with there ability to offer an item.

[christinandavid]

Like my boss used to say, "I don't need problem identifiers, I need problem solvers."

Of course, if the guys running the place can't identify the problem themselves or are in denial that the problem even exists...then offering suggestions to solve said problem tends to result in this...(flame2)

DP

Now, if the solution costs nothing in terms of time/money/radical way of thinking, it is more likely to be embraced. But does such a solution exist?

[RICHARD ZASTROW]

"The Man" knew the problems. He was a manager, not an engineer. That's why he didn't need problem identifiers. His staff (us) were there to solve the problems, and we did.

If we identified situations or opportunities, we suggested preemptive solutions or the means to take advantage of an opportunity.

I was employed, at that time, by a very large German company. Product was gas turbine engines for the power generation industry.

Dick Z

[christinandavid]

Sounds like heaven...

Oh well, back to the daily battle of wills/egos...

DP

[GITERDUN]

There's a process called immigration. Many red, white and blue Americans weren't born here. They came from other countries. Just as your ancestors probably did.

I double it 'cause we can go to the moon.

The "WE" that I know went to the moon 41 years ago. This guy is claiming membership in that group, yet his English sounds like he just waded ashore.

[WallyL7]

It is a serious question that the OP has, although I'm amazed that he can't answer it himself (I guess I'm not really amazed...)

Skullworks did a bang up job explaining pretty much what I was going to say about the matter.

Before Haas - Very few garage shops and very expensive machines and high cost of machining.

After Haas - every mouth breathing machinist (myself included ) could put a vertical mill and a 2 axis lathe in the garage and have an instant machine shop...

So... the real question you should have asked is not

"Why is the domestic machine builders behind in machine capability?", but rather "What impact has domestic machine builders had on the machine industry as a whole vs foreign builders?" This way we can actually compare what companies have reached their goals respectively.

Mazak's goal - probably to have a machine that hooks to an engineer's head and no matter what process is needed (sheetmetal, bending, waterjet, milling, 42 axis turning, grinding, polishing, plating, painting, putting in inserts, bolting on the next part of the assembly, etc), it just pops out the end with a robot that grabs it and puts it into the truck for shipping.

Haas' goal - Every garage in America has a cnc mill

At this point, they are both doing quite well in their pursuits, so we could say that they have contributed a similar amount for the industry, but both obviously have some work to do still...


Oh - and Fadal's goal ...remember when they tried to make a lathe...?...hahahaha:drowning:

[juergenwt]

Giterdun - For your info - The team that took us to the moon spoke English with a very heavy accent! But all became Americans. Take a trip to Huntsville, Alabama.

[christinandavid]

Giterdun - For your info - The team that took us to the moon spoke English with a very heavy accent! But all became Americans. Take a trip to Huntsville, Alabama.

Yeah...wasn't that the same team that was hell-bent on levelling London with V2s? And would have probably tried atom bombs if they hadn't grossly miscalculated the amount of uranium required...

DP

[juergenwt]

Christiananddavid - Rockets yes, Atomic bombs NO. Did not prevent us from letting them lead us to the moon. I guess - when you are in deep **** you don't ask who is pulling you out. Remember after Sputnik the Navy was given first choice (Vanguard) but failed miserably. Than the Nation turned to "THAT" team and they delivered. Today it's like Othello: "The N.... has done his duty - he can go.