[concombrefrais]

A quick question for Tormach owners. What machine do you have and what rapid/acceleration can you get with?
Thanks in advance?

[bevinp]

Do you mean what rapid speed or do you mean acceleration?

[concombrefrais]

I mean both.

[Don Clement]

Why do you ask on this forum? Tormach.com has those answers.

[concombrefrais]

I know the advertised speed 90ipm for the 1100 and 130 for the 770.
I just want to know what speed you actually get. Can you get more? Or can you not even get the advertised speed? For example the Novakon 145 advertised 130ipm but some owner said on this forum they can get 300ipm.
Syil advertised 200ipm for their x5 but I read owners saying they have to slow it down to 100ipm to prevent losing steps.
I am wondering what are the actual numbers for the Tormach, and of course with stock drive and steppers.

[Don Clement]

I am wondering what are the actual numbers for the Tormach, and of course with stock drive and steppers.

Why do you own a Tormach? If so why don't you tell us?

[barack]

Why do you own a Tormach? If so why don't you tell us?

I imagine he's a potential customer like me.
Do non owners need your permission to post a question in this forum?
I hope someone without a chip on their shoulder will answer, I'd like to know too.
barack

[Don Clement]

I imagine he's a potential customer like me.
Do non owners need your permission to post a question in this forum?
I hope someone without a chip on their shoulder will answer, I'd like to know too.
barack

Yeah I do have chips on my shoulder from making parts with my Tormach. Where does your chip come from? I can only speak from my experience: Never lost any steps using my Tormach running at the recommended maximum rapids with my 1100.

[David Bord]

Knowing what I know about Tormach, their machines will very comfortably run the advertised speeds.... Historically they rate their machines conservatively.

David

[zephyr9900]

You will also void the warranty if you change any of the operational parameters (Tormach uses a locked-down custom version of Mach3).

Randy

[concombrefrais]

Not sure why the drama Don Clement, I am just asking a simple question to people who have answers to share.

Thank you Randy, David and also Barack. Yes I am a potential customer. I am curious now, how does Tormach knows that you change the configuration? Do they provide a modified version of Mach which is somehow blocked? And even then, can't you use the regular Mach 3?

Thank you all for in advance your input,
Christian

[Don Clement]

For example the Novakon 145 advertised 130ipm but some owner said on this forum they can get 300ipm.

Where on this Tormach forum was that stated?

[barack]

Where on this Tormach forum was that stated?

I read that on the novakon forum too by ihavenofish.
300ipm was just in the middle of the travels not the full travel.
think 225ipm was possible stop to stop.
still they allow the user to make adjustments if they desire.
so tormach wont let the user make any adjustments to the motor tuning?
barack

[philbur]

I believe Tormach will give you the access code if you ask nicely. But the day they give it is the day you void your warranty and probably if you called for support with a problem that has the slightest possible chance of being “fiddling” related you might get the short answer.

If you are considering a CNC machine at this price level one of the last things that should concern your self with is how far you can crank up the rapids. As somebody else pointed out Tormach set their machines up on the conservative side to avoid disappointment, read broken cutters and damaged parts, or machine. Most Tormach users are into making parts and have a limited interest in hot roding their machines.

At the end of the day the only true answer would come from a back to back test with the same criteria and say one hundred repeats without a lost step. Otherwise it’s just so much smoke.

Phil

I read that on the novakon forum too by ihavenofish.
300ipm was just in the middle of the travels not the full travel.
think 225ipm was possible stop to stop.
still they allow the user to make adjustments if they desire.
so tormach wont let the user make any adjustments to the motor tuning?
barack

[barack]

I believe Tormach will give you the access code if you ask nicely. But the day they give it is the day you void your warranty and probably if you called for support with a problem that has the slightest possible chance of being “fiddling” related you might get the short answer.

If you are considering a CNC machine at this price level one of the last things that should concern your self with is how far you can crank up the rapids. As somebody else pointed out Tormach set their machines up on the conservative side to avoid disappointment, read broken cutters and damaged parts, or machine. Most Tormach users are into making parts and have a limited interest in hot roding their machines.

At the end of the day the only true answer would come from a back to back test with the same criteria and say one hundred repeats without a lost step. Otherwise it’s just so much smoke.

Phil

i'm not interested in "hot rodding", i am interested if adjustments are possible.
it seems the machine like the attitudes here are a bit stifled.
if it voids the warranty, so be it.
being allowed to adjust does make the other mills look more attractive.
if 90 ipm is conservative, then it seems it would be capable of more.
maybe 130 to be equal to the novakon.
if i knew i could ramp it up to that, it would make the decision easier.
130 isn't all that fast, i've run machines that go 300+.
barack

[David Bord]

You can tune to your hearts content but technically it will void your warranty. Its similiar to tuning/overclocking a PC. People who run production servers or workstations that are used to make money just dont do that(if some do its an extremely small percentage)

Tormach treats tunes their machines to the highest standards of reliability, therefore its needs to be conservative. As soon as you 'unlock' this, you are asking for a support nightmare.

I suspect that Tormach sells significantly more machines than those other brands, and has done so for a much longer time period. They have learned what it takes to build a machine that performs well as advertised, without creating a support nightmare for themselves.

I dont know that much about those other machines except that Tormach seems to be the market leader. LOTS of guys usnig these machines for production work and rarely a complaint of performance from owners.

Im going to guess that pushing your rapids which may in some circumstances cause lost steps, ruining a run of parts would be much more counter productive than simply leaving the machine as is.

David

[philbur]

If your buying criteria is dependent on the difference between 90 and 130 ipm rapids then you have a lot to learn.

If you want to know if adjustments are possible then email Tormach. Unlike many vendors you will actually get an answer.

A relatively large number of Tormach owners on this forum are in the grumpy old fart category. This is probably due to the fact that they have the experience to recognise a good deal when they see one. Don is the Alpha Male in the grumpy department and on a good day I probably come a close second. Although there are others that would claim second spot for their own.

Old farts tend to get grumpy when good advice is ignored.

Phil

i'm not interested in "hot rodding", i am interested if adjustments are possible.
it seems the machine like the attitudes here are a bit stifled.
if it voids the warranty, so be it.
being allowed to adjust does make the other mills look more attractive.
if 90 ipm is conservative, then it seems it would be capable of more.
maybe 130 to be equal to the novakon.
if i knew i could ramp it up to that, it would make the decision easier.
130 isn't all that fast, i've run machines that go 300+.
barack

[barack]

If your buying criteria is dependent on the difference between 90 and 130 ipm rapids then you have a lot to learn.

If you want to know if adjustments are possible then email Tormach. Unlike many vendors you will actually get an answer.

A relatively large number of Tormach owners on this forum are in the grumpy old fart category. This is probably due to the fact that they have the experience to recognise a good deal when they see one. Don is the Alpha Male in the grumpy department and on a good day I probably come a close second. Although there are others that would claim second spot for their own.

Old farts tend to get grumpy when good advice is ignored.

Phil

does tormach have its own forum run by the people that work for tormach?
i'm looking for facts, not interested in grumpy old farts attitudes.
you seem to have a problem with any mention of a competitor company.
good thing i dont see moderator under any of your names.
i'm well aware of the many differences involved when choosing a mill.
I, like the op, was asking about just one difference at this time.
I thank the couple who gave some factual information and left their attitudes out in the shop.
barack

[Magnum164]

I have to tend to agree with the older generation here. Even being new to machining one thing I am confused about is the talk about high IPMs.. Isn't that directly related to material and cutter? I don't see anyone mentioning that at all? What material are you wanting to scream by at 330IPM?

I just cut a part out this weekend with the machine set at 30IPM... The part was cut (actual cutting time) in less than 30-45 seconds. It took me longer to change to the second tool than it did to actually cut the part. And that was running the machine "very" conservative by some of the tools like G-Wizard.

While my 770 could run faster, there wasn't a need to. Anything faster and I would have to buy a slow speed camera to watch it

[philbur]

Rapids are not about cutting speeds but about moves between cutting operations. I know of two situations where high rapids might be of interest, there are probably lots more.

1) You may have a part that requires only a few seconds cutting with say three different tools. Moving to the change tool position can then take as long as the actual cutting process. Not a big problem for one offs, for which the Tormach and similar are best suited, but in a production environment this can mean money. A tool changer, together with multiple parts, will further show up the limit of slow rapids.

2) Large complex 3D parts where a significant portion of the total part time may be spend travelling between machining location. Although lost steps halfway through a nine hour operation would probably be a more effective way to spoil your day.

I think that generally big rapids are most relevant in a production environment where expensive machines are cheap in comparison with the fixed costs. With one off parts, for which the Tormach and similar machines are best suited, it takes much longer to write and debug the code and set up the part than it does to cut the part, even on the slowest machine. So slow rapids become largely irrelevant, 90 and 130 ipm becomes effective the same number.

Phil

I have to tend to agree with the older generation here. Even being new to machining one thing I am confused about is the talk about high IPMs.. Isn't that directly related to material and cutter? I don't see anyone mentioning that at all? What material are you wanting to scream by at 330IPM?

I just cut a part out this weekend with the machine set at 30IPM... The part was cut (actual cutting time) in less than 30-45 seconds. It took me longer to change to the second tool than it did to actually cut the part. And that was running the machine "very" conservative by some of the tools like G-Wizard.

While my 770 could run faster, there wasn't a need to. Anything faster and I would have to buy a slow speed camera to watch it