[hoss2006]

At some point in the future I might purchase a G0704 and CNC it. At present I have a Taig Mill with a Deepgroove1 Gecko G540 control box which I would like to use in the conversion. I know that I would have to get a larger power supply for it but I am would like to know the best available stepper combination to use with the G540.

On this page G0704 Electronics Hoss suggests:

"Bare Minimum Recommendation - This runs at 50 Volts but only 3.5 Amps
Should be easier for newbies to setup but is definitely weaker. Don't expect
to be able to hog as much metal with this setup.**

(1) Geckodrive G540 4 Axis driver - $249 (with other purchase)
(2) KL23H2100-35-4B 381 oz-in stepper motor (X and Y axis) $49 / $98
(1) KL23H2100-30-4BM 495 oz-in stepper motor (Z axis) / $59.95 *
(1) KL-600-48 48V/12.5A power Supply / $129.95

Total = $536.90

* Run with a 1.33:1 pulley ratio (24 and 32 tooth pulleys) for 658 oz/in output."

But on Keling's page Page Title one of the packages is:

"G540 3 axis package (one G540 + one KL34H295-43-8B, 906 oz-in +
Two KL23H2100-35-4B (1/4” Dual shaft with a flat) 381 oz-in + one
KL-600-48 48V/12.5A 115V /230V
power supply): $581.95"

It would seem that the Keling package would not require the 1.33:1 pulley ratio that Hoss suggests. In fact it would allow a Z axis stepper larger than the 570 oz-in stepper Hoss uses now. I realize that this probably not the optimum combination but it would speed up the Z axis.

Bottom line question, is there a better stepper combination for the G0704 using the Geckodrive G540 4 Axis driver that would perform better than Hoss's Bare Minimum Recommendation?

You're only going to get the rated oz/in out of a motor if the driver can give it the current it needs.
The g540 is only going to give the 906 3.5 amps when it needs 6.1.
you'll only get 520 oz/in.
3.5/6.1=.5737 x 906 = 519.7
the keling package is for an X3 w/cncfusion kit with a 1.2:1 pulley ratio
giving 624 oz/in at the shaft.
mine gives 658 at the shaft for $45 less.
it's your money, spend it however you wish.
Hoss

[kanton]

Hoss,

Thanks for your help.

I think I understand. The problem with the G540 is 3.5 amp limit. So if I installed a KL23H2100-50-4B (3/8” Dual shaft with a flat) 570 oz-in stepper it would only have 3.5/5 x 570 = 399 oz-in torque. But a KL23H2100-30-4BM (1/4” Dual shaft with a flat) 495 oz-in stepper would have the full 495 oz-in torque as it only draws 3 amps.
So the best performing G540 system would have three KL23H2100-30-4BM (1/4” Dual shaft with a flat) 495 oz-in steppers. This would cost about $22 more than your "Bare Minimum Recommendation"

Is the KL-600-48 48V/12.5A power Supply / $129.95 the best one to use with the G540?

If I want to run a fourth axis would the strongest stepper be the KL23H2100-30-4BM 495 oz-in stepper?

Thanks again for your help.

[hoss2006]

depends on what you are after, a 495 would give more torque vs the 381
thats why it's better for the Z
but the voltage of the 381 is closer to the g540 48 volts which should give better speed on the x and y.
same as the 906 is better voltage wise than the 495.
torque wise to raise and lower the head they should be pretty equal,
$45 could get you a little more z rapid speed.
are you just looking for rapid speed or milling speed.
it's all about choices, spend more, get more, but not always.
I recommended the 381 for the X and Y to get decent speed for rapiding the long table
and the 495 for the Z for more torque for raising and lowering the head.
The Z doesn't need to rapid as fast as the X and Y, it's usually only moving a few inches total during a program, i.e. from the safe Z,
while the X could need to go up to 19 inches while making a part.

A 495 would be best for a 4th axis, you don't need speed.

If you plan to run 3 axis tops at once, not many ever run 4 at the same time,
the KL-350-48 48V/7.3A
110V/230V $59.95
or
KL- 4875 : $99/pcs Specification:
Unregulated Power Supply 350W, 48DC/7.5A
should do the job just as it has for my tests.
If you follow the gecko rule, then 3.5 x 4 = 14 x .6 = 8.4 amps.
Stick with the 12.5A to play it safe.
Hoss

[kanton]

Hoss,

Thanks again for your help.

The Deepgroove1 Gecko control box has a 48vdc 400watt power supply or 400/48 = 8.33 amps. Is this power supply adequate for three steppers?

Thanks.

[hoss2006]

Hoss,

Thanks again for your help.

The Deepgroove1 Gecko control box has a 48vdc 400watt power supply or 400/48 = 8.33 amps. Is this power supply adequate for three steppers?

Thanks.

sure thing.
Hoss

[kanton]

Hoss,

Thanks again.

Is this power supply adequate for four steppers?

Deepgroove1 sells this Gecko control box for $430.00 here gecko 4 axis drive taig sherline cnc lathe mill router - eBay (item 150490603204 end time Nov-06-10 15:54:36 PDT) .

Newbies might consider it as it is assembled but not the lowest cost option.

Thanks.

[hoss2006]

I'm working on a little portable CNC console of sorts to use on a couple projects here and there.
Using an old DVD player case for all the electronics and running it with a laptop.
Found a heck of a deal on an old Gateway 9550, has 1.13 Ghz P3 and most important,
still has a parallel port.
I ran the driver test and it had a few little spikes but nothing terrible.
This won't be for big jobs, just putting a quick profile on a part for example.
I have some links saved for info on turning off the chipsaving malarky in laptops,
have to find them again.
Ran a quick test to make sure Mach 3 can run the mill with the laptop though that's not what it's for.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugTwnPaMvC0"]YouTube - Gateway Laptop Portable CNC[/nomedia]

Got the laptop for $99.99. free shipping.
Found it on Ebay using this site that sorts them all out for you.
All Cheap Laptops Under 100 - Cheap Netbooks - Used Laptops
Make sure you read all the specs, some don't come with Operating Systems or even hard drives
but there are lots for under $100.
Hoss

[Starleper1]

You could also just use a Smooth Stepper then you can run on any PC regardless of a parallel port.

Only downside, no backlash compensation.

~Scott

[hoss2006]

You could also just use a Smooth Stepper then you can run on any PC regardless of a parallel port.

Only downside, no backlash compensation.

~Scott

I'll save that $159 and use other software if mach doesn't play nice
even with chipset mods.
Hoss

[diyengineer]

You could also just use a Smooth Stepper then you can run on any PC regardless of a parallel port.

Only downside, no backlash compensation.

~Scott

Within the next month Greg the creator of the smooth stepper said he was releasing the final main update for it that includes backlash compensation!

Greg also said starting January the prototype for the Ethernet smooth stepper version is going to be in the works. He has to wait till January for some special controller or chip that has not come out yet.

Anyways, that is the word from the source.

[Starleper1]

Good to hear. I knew it was in the works but never heard a definite release date.

I used the SS on a machine I built that used double ball nuts so I didn't need backlash comp.

I have to say though the CNC4PC C25 board made quick work of it with the all in one dual breakout board.

~Scott

[diyengineer]

Good to hear. I knew it was in the works but never heard a definite release date.

I used the SS on a machine I built that used double ball nuts so I didn't need backlash comp.

I have to say though the CNC4PC C25 board made quick work of it with the all in one dual breakout board.

~Scott

I was totally unaware when i placed my order that it did not have backlash comp. I was just using it so i could use USB. My large machine has 2 axes that are gear drive now and one lead screw. So i look forward to the update since i'm sure it will improve my accuracy greatly.

I'm a bit confused though, i thought you set the backlash compensation in mach? So what does that have to do with the smooth stepper not being able to do it? does mach just modify the G code that you enter initially and spit out a modified code that basically says: "based on your backlash this is where i "think" we should move the cutter so the machine will cut the intended program".

Or does the smooth stepper have to compute it all on the fly?

[hoss2006]

I found the webpage in my bookmarks, figures it was Phil from PMinMO.com,
the guy knows his stuff.
Laptops - PMinMO.com
He explains the myths perpetuated about Mach 3 and laptops.
I ran the first 2 fixes he suggested and the driver test looked much better afterwards.
the 3rd test is apparently permanent to the laptop system so I'll hold off on that,
the other 2 are simpler and reversible.
The driver test now says System Excellent so I'm happy with it.
Hoss
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q93J2Uwmz3A"]YouTube - PMinMO Laptop Mach 3 Fixes[/nomedia]

[Starleper1]

I was totally unaware when i placed my order that it did not have backlash comp. I was just using it so i could use USB. My large machine has 2 axes that are gear drive now and one lead screw. So i look forward to the update since i'm sure it will improve my accuracy greatly.

I'm a bit confused though, i thought you set the backlash compensation in mach? So what does that have to do with the smooth stepper not being able to do it? does mach just modify the G code that you enter initially and spit out a modified code that basically says: "based on your backlash this is where i "think" we should move the cutter so the machine will cut the intended program".

Or does the smooth stepper have to compute it all on the fly?

The Smooth Stepper has its own plugin where you assign all your settings and backlash is not included as one of them. For example, when you use the parallel port you can change the kernel speed to better suit your PC and get a higher rapid speed. With the smooth stepper you can adjust the kernel speed to any number under ports and pins and it doesn't effect the performance in any shape or form. It's all done within the smooth stepper plugin. The only portion that you actually can set within ports and pins are the inputs and outputs. Everything else is done through the plugin.

~Scott

[ncdeftones]

Grrrrr!!!!!! All these problems with the gib strips are driving me nuts. My mill keeps seizing up on me on the Y when moving in the positive direction. When I checked the strip yet again I found that I was mistaken about the lack of machining on one side. The side that rides against the gib is the one not machined and wavy. Before anyone ask, yes, it is put in correctly according to the notches that catch the gib screws. I'm also still having issues with the gib strip slipping past the rear screw.

On top of that I went to check my lead screw adjustment and the adjustment screws were apparently never put in from the factory on the X and one of the screws on the Y is so lose it's about to fall out. I've barely used the mill so there's no way they vibrated out. I should have checked them to begin with. Anyway, I'll give Grizzly a call tomorrow and see if they will send me a replacement gib strip for the Y and I'll go to a hardware store and buy some M4-.7 cap screws to replace the missing ones.

Sorry I'm just frustrated. Once I get the bugs worked out and get this thing 100% operational I'm sure I'll be singing a different tune.

[Dynamech]

Can't you use Mach's backlash compensation through the smoothstepper?

[hoss2006]

Grrrrr!!!!!! All these problems with the gib strips are driving me nuts. My mill keeps seizing up on me on the Y when moving in the positive direction. When I checked the strip yet again I found that I was mistaken about the lack of machining on one side. The side that rides against the gib is the one not machined and wavy. Before anyone ask, yes, it is put in correctly according to the notches that catch the gib screws. I'm also still having issues with the gib strip slipping past the rear screw.

On top of that I went to check my lead screw adjustment and the adjustment screws were apparently never put in from the factory on the X and one of the screws on the Y is so lose it's about to fall out. I've barely used the mill so there's no way they vibrated out. I should have checked them to begin with. Anyway, I'll give Grizzly a call tomorrow and see if they will send me a replacement gib strip for the Y and I'll go to a hardware store and buy some M4-.7 cap screws to replace the missing ones.

Sorry I'm just frustrated. Once I get the bugs worked out and get this thing 100% operational I'm sure I'll be singing a different tune.

could you post a pic of yours installed?
mine has a rough side too but seems opposite of yours.
Hoss

[hoss2006]

Can't you use Mach's backlash compensation through the smoothstepper?

nope, that's the problem and why it's been over 2 years and still no backlash comp with a smoothstepper.
Hoss

[mwood3]

I will pull my gib strip when i get home, but looks like the machined the wrong side of that strip...

[diyengineer]

The Smooth Stepper has its own plugin where you assign all your settings and backlash is not included as one of them. For example, when you use the parallel port you can change the kernel speed to better suit your PC and get a higher rapid speed. With the smooth stepper you can adjust the kernel speed to any number under ports and pins and it doesn't effect the performance in any shape or form. It's all done within the smooth stepper plugin. The only portion that you actually can set within ports and pins are the inputs and outputs. Everything else is done through the plugin.

~Scott

Well hopefully Greg comes through and delivers us backlash compensation!
Or it will most likely get unplugged and ill run 2 parallel cables instead. Boooo haha..