[Col. Hajj]

Hello everyone,

I currently have a shop in town doing some laser cutting and engraving for me. They do good work, but are not very reliable for getting it done on time. So, I am in need of some guidance as to rather or not I should buy my own laser and do them my self, or try to find someone else that can make the products for me.

So far all of my projects are made out of acrylic and are between 3-5mm thick. The largest product right now is 260mm x 150mm. Since I started selling these in April, I've sold over 1,100 items.

I create all the designs in Illustrator my self. Here are some photos of products and designs they are made from.













This is the largest product, it is still in the prototype stage.






So my question is, would it be a good move to get my own laser and do the work my self, or would I be better off having someone do these for me?

Thank you,

Keith

[fantasy2]

If it's a good idea to buy a laser and cut it yourself depends on your budget for the initial investment, the time you have available and how many parts you want to produce in a certain time. Getting to know your laser costs a lot of time, plus you have to learn how different materials cut.

If you do have the money to buy an epilog or comparable laser it probably will be easier and faster with the right support than buying a chinese one.

[zax15uk]

Keith,

First off, great designs.

I would suggest costing up the materials (being conservative to allow for waste) and seeing what margins are involved.

Consider the return on investment for the machine and the added time it will involve to learn and produce the design, fill the acrylic etc. They probably use a flame polisher too, not expensive but another tool to learn and it takes some skill to use well.

You would be better off purchasing a branded system or a system from a US reseller (someone like Ray Scott at http://www.rabbitlaserusa.com would be my suggestion).

I suspect the cost saving is sufficient to pay off the machine in a couple of years if you are willing to put in some extra labor, and it would give you the advantage that you have total control and can also do development easier.

Zax.

[Col. Hajj]

Thanks for the replies guys. I know they the current shop does not use a flame polisher. They are the only local plastic supply shop in town, so I'd be getting my plastic from them still, just doing the laser work my self.

All of my products are cut out of acrylic, so that should be the only material that I'd need to master on the laser. The wife could want some rubber stamp stuff cut out, so that is in the back of my mind.

I was actually looking at Full Spectrum 40W laser. The cutting area is large enough for what I need and it would not take up half the garage to setup.

[Tweakie]

Just a suggestion but...

Before deciding you should check out Rabbit laser and look at the quality of the stuff Ray Scott has produced. http://www.rabbitlaserusa.com/SamplesExamples.html

Tweakie.

[dewme5]

Thanks for the replies guys. I know they the current shop does not use a flame polisher. They are the only local plastic supply shop in town, so I'd be getting my plastic from them still, just doing the laser work my self.

All of my products are cut out of acrylic, so that should be the only material that I'd need to master on the laser. The wife could want some rubber stamp stuff cut out, so that is in the back of my mind.

I was actually looking at Full Spectrum 40W laser. The cutting area is large enough for what I need and it would not take up half the garage to setup.

There are many places you can get your plastics from, and save alot of money over what they would charge. If you are producing these things, in any volume, you should not buy your materials from the shop down the street.

If you can get a good sized order together all at once, say $800 or more you can deal with big distributors like SABIC, and save HUGE money, get the sheet the exact size you want, and delivered. I only mention this, as you stated you've sold 1,100 of them. That's enough at one time to save you probably 50-150% over the shop down the street, and that, would get you close to paying for a laser.

[adrianhdezch]

Hi Keith,
I purchase a Chinese laser machine and getting technical support from them is extremely hard and the only way they can help you is via email which is lengthy considering the time difference. However, the Chinese machines are appealing because they are not expensive comparing them to some of the name brands here in USA. Furthermore, if you are thinking about buying a Chinese laser machine take a look at this website address below this company is in Albuquerque, NM and you can even call the owner by phone. I’m planning to buy a smaller laser machine and this is my guy for now. I hope this can help

http://www.mbkpinternational.com/laser_engravers.htm

[Col. Hajj]

Tweakie, I have looked at the Rabbit lasers from Scott. the problem for me is that his smallest laser is too small and the next size up is to large.

dewme5, thanks for the heads up on the plastic supplier. The benefit of working with the shop down the street is that I can order in quantities as needed. This keeps me from sitting on large amounts of stock. If I do go the route of buying a laser, I might as well buy the plastic in bulk too... and this info will come in real handy.

adrianhdezch, thanks for sharing your experiences with the Chinese lasers. I've read pretty much the same thing in lots of post here on the site. A local seller here in the US was one of the reasons I would looking at the Full Spectrum setup. Seems to be a good mix of Chinese hardware and US contacts, not to mention the size of the 40W laser is about what I'm looking for with price and size factored in. The site that you liked to looked alright, but it does say the only support they offer is to get you engraving text... after that you are on your own. That might be the case pretty much every where though.

[Col. Hajj]

another question you guys might be able to answer for me:

Since I am engraving and cutting the acrylic pieces, what type of Z table or axis machine would I need? I'd prefer to start the engrave/cut process and be "hands off" while it does the work. I think from my reading, a manual Z would require me to engrave everything first, then lift the Z table up and then start the cutting step?

[Tweakie]

It is usual to set the focal point 1/3 the way into the work for cutting acrylic but up to 6mm it is OK to set it to the surface. This would then be OK for engraving as well.

Tweakie.

[fullspeceng]

Keith sent us and asked for our opinion on lasers.

Our 40W mini lasers and 60w professional lasers offer tremendous value.

Visit our webpage for a comparison:
http://www.fullspectrumengineering.c...serv2-40w.html

We manufacturer our own print driver and our own control cards in the USA.

If your control card blows, we can replace it immediately.

If you have software problems, we can fix it ourselves.

No one else in the low cost laser market offers direct print drivers. This is a new product for us but since we did everything we can change anything:
http://www.fullspectrumengineering.c...naEngrave.html

We are in Las Vegas, NV and ship from our warehouse here.

We also can refer you to our partners for onsite service (service charge applies).

Before you buy ask what software comes with your laser. Ask if you can print from Adobe Illustrator or Inkscape or MS Word.

What good is your laser if you can't use it with software?

[fullspeceng]

Watch our video on Youtube:
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4LZjRMrnXk"]YouTube- Direct Print from Any Windows Application Into Your Laser Engraver / Cutter[/nomedia]

and get more information here:
http://www.fullspectrumengineering.c...naEngrave.html

A single button will output to the laser. It is as easy as printing on paper.

[Col. Hajj]

FullSpec, I've watched your videos before, can you tell me if your 3rd Gen Hobby laser would be able to do what I need it to? Can you walk me through what the steps would be in order to engrave and cut out acrylic parts like I posted above?

[fullspeceng]

We can cut through 1/4" acrylic no problem.

Just print from Adobe illustrator and hit the "Cut Now" button. Adjust the speed down or up until it cuts through but does it as fast as possible.

That's pretty much it. No one else makes it as simple.

Your product is great and you sold 1000 units and I assume you made more than $2 each so you could have already paid for the laser.

Honestly the 40w mini is a hobby laser and not really intended for high production. For prototypes it is great.

For a step up we recommend the 60w professional unit which cuts a lot faster with faster motors and more power and bigger unit size.

Unlike a CNC mill or lathe, lasers are easy to use. There's no clamping and any 10 year old can operate it. Just open the top, put it down and hit go. If you have kids you can just let them do the dirty work

[Tweakie]

A lot say they can do it but when it comes to cutting acrylic the edge quality has to be taken into account.
Eurolaser, in Germany, produce a keyring fob as a sample of their (straight off the laser) quality which I am unable to match. http://www.eurolaser.com/application.../foot-key-tag/
Having said that I can get to within 90% but the final part still alludes me.
This example, of edge quality, is straight off my laser with no re-finishing etc. etc. and could be considered as an example which others machines should be able to match.

Tweakie.

[fullspeceng]

Lasers are pretty simple:

For best quality you need 2 things:

1) a good trajectory planner (fitting all points to a cubic spline is the best) with no stops/start and go along the path

2) a lens with a depth of field deep enough to cut through the work

(1) is a function of your software

(2) can be bought from II-IV

[dewme5]

Lasers are pretty simple:

For best quality you need 2 things:

1) a good trajectory planner (fitting all points to a cubic spline is the best) with no stops/start and go along the path

2) a lens with a depth of field deep enough to cut through the work

(1) is a function of your software

(2) can be bought from II-IV

I'll have to disagree with #2. Acrylic has a great tendency to channel the beam in a straight fashion. Adjust the focus correctly, and you can cut the acrylic with nice straight sides.

The smooth finish is a good mix of focus, speed, and assist gas.

If your focus is to low, you will see it when looking at the side of the fresh cut part in the light. You'll notice a rounded effect. I always use a series of small patterns on new material to adjust focus speed, and assist.

Focus .5" cuts adjusting .005 each time, and getting the smallest kerf.

The speed, doing a U pattern, such as y-.25 then x.5, then y.25. moving along the material edge as necessary, adjusting by 10% each time. Cutting out a little chunk, and inspecting. Dialing in. Best cut will be apparent. Repeat for air pressure. Acrylic really likes low pressure. 3 or 4 psi.

Slower speeds, in the 20IPM should give you a smooth finish, free of striations. My assist gas (shop air for acrylic) comes through the nozzle, so it functions to blow through the cut, not just cool the material as with some hobbyist machines.

I can cut at faster speeds with higher power, but the shaky edge creeps in. Slowing down, and optimizing will give a good finish.

[Col. Hajj]

We can cut through 1/4" acrylic no problem.


Your product is great and you sold 1000 units and I assume you made more than $2 each so you could have already paid for the laser.

Honestly the 40w mini is a hobby laser and not really intended for high production. For prototypes it is great.

So, it can cut and engrave the 1/4 acrylic in one pass, or do I need to do the cutting and the engraving separately?

The flight base as pictured with the airplane retails for $3.24 and the Smoke and Flame markers go for $2.49... so no, I'm not quite making $2 an item off of them!

I normally order batches of 50-200 of the flight bases, would the 40W hobby laser not be good for that?

A lot say they can do it but when it comes to cutting acrylic the edge quality has to be taken into account.
Eurolaser, in Germany, produce a keyring fob as a sample of their (straight off the laser) quality which I am unable to match. http://www.eurolaser.com/application.../foot-key-tag/
Having said that I can get to within 90% but the final part still alludes me.
This example, of edge quality, is straight off my laser with no re-finishing etc. etc. and could be considered as an example which others machines should be able to match.

Tweakie.

Your edges are as good or better then what I am getting from my current laser shop. I did read through part of that thread on here talking about it... but with my current limited knowledge of lasers and the settings, it got over my head a bit. If I had a machine in front of me to see/do what was being talked about, I'm sure I could follow along and get decent results my self.

[Tweakie]

Hey Buddy,

I think you have to do some serious maths here regarding the viability of the whole laser scheme.

Your overheads may be a lot less than mine but I could not make that model base for $3.24 using my laser - it would just take too long to make and color the engraving for all those parts.
With a 'big boys' machine and a large enough production run then maybe but I need to see PROFIT and a $3.24 sales price just doesn't do it for me.

My advice would be to stick with your existing out-sourcing because I think you have got a very good deal there.

Tweakie.

[fullspeceng]

As mentioned the hobby lasers are meant for hobby use.

If you want to make 1000 of something I would buy the bigger machine. If you want training we can refer you to our partners/dealers but there is a charge involved.

It works fine to cut through 1/4" acrylic as we show in the pictures. You can slow it down as much as you want with our new software.

Sounds like you have a business question and not a laser question.

You can ask all those questions to a full service laser dealer like Epilog or Universal who have paid sales people and once you decide if a laser is what you want then shop around to compare prices (their $10,000 vs our $1625 for a 40W).