[TangentAudio]

Can anyone clarify whether these quickchange tooling systems are all compatible and follow the same scheme as Tormach? They all look pretty similar, at least.

Tormach, of course:
http://www.tormach.com/Product_TTS2.html

Novakon's offering:
http://www.novakon.net/quick_change_tooling.html

Smithy's offering:
http://www.smithy.com/accessories.ph...aid=1014&code=
Smithy claims "Tool holders are designed to "bottom out" on the face of the R8 collet, giving you a fixed height each time." This sounds distinctly different than TTS.

Tormach's scheme:



thanks,
Steve

[flick]

I think they meant "spindle", not "collet". Which would be the same as TTS. I'm pretty sure it's a direct copy of TTS.

[David Da Costa]

I can confirm that Novakon and Tormach are compatible as I have both.

David

[NeverRetire]

I think they meant "spindle", not "collet". Which would be the same as TTS. I'm pretty sure it's a direct copy of TTS.

I doubt they meant to say "spindle". I'd guess the error is more an indication that they don't understand the design that they're trying to copy. Tormach invented the stuff, Tormach understands it, and their support is outstanding. Tormach continues to develop new tools and really unique ideas like their USB microscope scanning system.

Perhaps the real question is what kind of company do you want to support, the developers & leaders, or those who lag behind and copy designs without even understanding them.

[philbur]

Interestingly the animation contradicts page 3 of the Tormach TTS manual.

http://www.tormach.com/document_libr...S_UM_Rev-C.pdf

There is no dual contact. The end of the collet does not contact the inner face of the toolholder. Dual contact would require very, very precise tolerances on every component, and allowing for wear would be impossible.

Looking at the recess faces on my TTS toolholders, they are clearly not precision faces.

Just an observation
Phil

[flick]

I doubt they meant to say "spindle". I'd guess the error is more an indication that they don't understand the design that they're trying to copy.

That could very well be a better interpretation.

Tormach invented the stuff, Tormach understands it, and their support is outstanding. Tormach continues to develop new tools and really unique ideas like their USB microscope scanning system.

Perhaps the real question is what kind of company do you want to support, the developers & leaders, or those who lag behind and copy designs without even understanding them.

In the literature published by Tormach I haven't noticed any patent numbers mentioned with respect to TTS. Perhaps Tormach has not put any IP protection in place for TTS because it isn't significantly different from prior art.

So perhaps the real question is: Why would you try to be a social activist with your hard-earned purchasing dollars when Tormach hasn't even seen fit to protect TTS with the legal mechanisms available?

Please do correct me if I'm wrong about the status of TTS as being essentially public domain. I'm certainly not setting out to misinform, it just seems like the "damn those copycats!" sentiments are reaching manic levels amongst the manufacturing crowd lately, and are occasionally being applied to situations where it's not really sensible.

[sansbury]

it just seems like the "damn those copycats!" sentiments are reaching manic levels amongst the manufacturing crowd lately, and are occasionally being applied to situations where it's not really sensible.

I'd argue with the use of the word "lately."

[ihavenofish]

Interestingly the animation contradicts page 3 of the Tormach TTS manual.

http://www.tormach.com/document_libr...S_UM_Rev-C.pdf

There is no dual contact. The end of the collet does not contact the inner face of the toolholder. Dual contact would require very, very precise tolerances on every component, and allowing for wear would be impossible.

Looking at the recess faces on my TTS toolholders, they are clearly not precision faces.

Just an observation
Phil

it doesnt contradict. nowhere does the tormach literature or animation claim the collet nose to tool holder is a precision contact point or load bearing point. the "dual" contact is with the shank and the collar and is pretty clearly stated in all the literature and animations.

smithy's literature has a typo. whether its because their web developer is sloppy and noone prof reads, or because they lack the undurstanding of how the tool functions i have no clue.

[philbur]

Either I'm going crazy or somebody corrected the video yesterday.

Phil

it doesnt contradict. nowhere does the tormach literature or animation claim the collet nose to tool holder is a precision contact point or load bearing point. the "dual" contact is with the shank and the collar and is pretty clearly stated in all the literature and animations.

smithy's literature has a typo. whether its because their web developer is sloppy and noone prof reads, or because they lack the undurstanding of how the tool functions i have no clue.

[ihavenofish]

Either I'm going crazy or somebody corrected the video yesterday.

Phil

i vote crazy! :P j/k.

this is the first time ive seen that video, so i have no idea.

[philbur]

(chair)

Phil

i vore crazy! :P j/k.

this is the first time ive seen that video, so i have no idea.

[Hirudin]

I know I know, this thread is nearly three years old...

Anyway, I've finally jumped on the TTS bandwagon. I wish I had done it sooner; these things look awesome! While doing my research I came across this thread and the idea that Tormach hadn't tried to patent "their" system made me wonder if they truly invented it.

Well, I've now had two orders from Tormach: one came in last Saturday (I think) and one just came in today (Thursday). Most of the pieces in today's shipment have a sticker with the following stuck on them...

Tormach Tooling System (TTS) is covered by one or more of the following: US Patent No(s): D643,864; and Patent(s) Pending.

[TangentAudio]

That's a Tormach patent.

Patent USD643864 - Milling tool holder - Google Patents

Looks like it was filed in 2008, and issued in 2011.

It's a design patent (hence the "D" in the number). Design patent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[SCzEngrgGroup]

The Tormach TTS patent is a design patent, which means it protects ONLY the aesthetic design of their holders. IIRC, it also covers only the set-screw holders. The TTS concept itself is almost surely NOT patentable, as the basic idea has been around forever.

Regards,
Ray L.

[vcatalasan]

Wow OP was asking compatibility and you guys (chair), so what was the answer again, I got lost.

[Hirudin]

I see. Thanks for the info guys!

[109jb]

But the post you refer to were in response to a post made yesterday, not the original post from 3 years ago. Before you jump on people it may behove you to read the ENTIRE thread to see if the responses were to something other than the original post.

[wizard]

I was under the impression Tormach bought the company that developed what became the TTS. It really isn't much of a development as people have been using R8 in auto changing tool systems for some time.

I know I know, this thread is nearly three years old...

Anyway, I've finally jumped on the TTS bandwagon. I wish I had done it sooner; these things look awesome! While doing my research I came across this thread and the idea that Tormach hadn't tried to patent "their" system made me wonder if they truly invented it.

Well, I've now had two orders from Tormach: one came in last Saturday (I think) and one just came in today (Thursday). Most of the pieces in today's shipment have a sticker with the following stuck on them...