[vfsi]

I have a MV-45/40 with the Fanuc 6MB control, hydraulic tool changer.

The crash appears to have been caused by a loose sensor flag on the up position of the arm allowing the arm to travel too high and contact the clamp release cam (ramp) when it rotated to pick up the tools.
After the crash, the tool changer arm at the home position (all positions in fact) is rotated by 10 degrees or so. How do I turn it back?

I removed the arm and the tool changer cycle completes normally with the exception that the arm is misaligned.

Any help, an exploded view from a service manual..............

Thanks
vfsi

[claya]

Sometimes the arm shifts on the shaft. It sounds like the arm cycles correctly. You have to lower the arm by stopping it mid cycle, and then loosen the clamp. There is a procedure in the book for the cycle. I can help once you get the arm down. It is not complicated. Just seems like it.

ca

[Boots]

Claya is correct...the arm has slipped on the shaft. This is not keyed as it would cause much damage if it were. It is a taper fit like a tool holder. Once it is loose you can tap it around untill it is alligned properly. I've had to do this before due to a tooling jam durring tool change.

[vfsi]

Thank you for the reply.

I have the two handed arm off of the shaft end but I do not see how to pull the shaft end off of a taper so I can change it's orientation.

Do I need a wheel puller?

[Boots]

Yes.... wheel or gear puller will do it.

[vfsi]

The assembly of the tool rotating arm as I have disassembled it so far is as follows: (a picture would shorten this by a thousand words)

The two handed arm is held up by 4 SHCS and located with 2 dowel pins to a disk shaped mounting plate ~ 4.0 x 1.5 inches. (it's all metric so....)
The mounting plate is held in place by a large jam nut ~2 3/8 across the flats. The nut holds the mounting plate onto a splined shaft about 1 1/2 diameter. The splined shaft is an extension of the long 3 1/2 diameter polished shaft that extends to the top of the machine.

Above the mounting plate is a cast yoke that houses a large roller bearing that the polished shaft rotates in and a flange on the back side that connects to the hydraulic cylinder behind the rotating shaft. The yoke is attached to the hyd. cylinder shaft by a nut. Removing the nut allows the yoke to be removed and the rotating shaft to fall until the top of the shaft hits the lower travel limit.

The splined end of the rotating shaft appears to be one piece with the polished OD of the rotating shaft. If it is not one piece, this must be the adjustable taper?

Then again I don't know............. I omitted washers and etc. to save on typing.

[Boots]

The Disk mounting plate should have a slight taper as does the bore for the rotating arm. When the large nut (2 3/8) is tight the fit is just right but with a hard blow the arms will move under a friction fit. This is to prevent a major breakdown incase of a tool jam. Operate the tool changer in manual rotating the large flywheel by hand to get the timing right, is how we fixed our Mori. Be careful though cause the wheel can "Take off" on you and you wouldn't want to get your hand in the gears. Do you not have a manual that shows this?

[vfsi]

boots,

thanks for the reply but I think we have different tool changers. I do not have a flywheel. My tool changer has a dual rack and pinion hydraulic rotary actuator to swing the arm. The Disk mounting plate has a splined bore and a straight outside with dowel pins for location of the arm. There is no taper.

I know you are correct about the slip in the system, because when it crashed, I saw it jam and then slip out of position so the limit switch made, indicating the end of rotation.

I just need to find the slip joint. I don't have a big enough hammer to beat it back into position.

I don't have the machine manual that show the tool changer.

[Sierra Nevada]

I did a toolchange with a M19, M31, M80-89 and I did not send my z back to zero. Now my changer is not aligned. I've taken apart most of the arm. Now I just have the shaft to deal with. I can not seem to get the taper to get loose. If anyone has some advice I'd love some. I can not understand where a gear or wheel puller could be used.

[claya]

The taper clamp on the shaft is brilliantly designed, and does its job well. It is VERY tight, when it is supposed to be. Once you get the arm down, loosen all the cap screws, on the clamp ring, and slide it up the shaft. You will also need to spin the large bottom nut to back off the pressure from below. Just don't remove the large nut completely. You can mark the arm position on the shaft if you want. Mark/ lightly scribe it UNDER the arm. Then it takes some liquid wrench, or other penetrating oil, and lots and LOTS of tapping on the arm to free the taper rings.

To remove the arm from the shaft, you need to remove the large shaft nut, and the tool lock pins, etc... Don't remove the arm if you don't have to.

The trick is tightening clamp ring back.
Obviously the machine has to be on. And MAKE sure the z-axis is at z-zero!!!
Replace two of the cap screws in the shaft clamp with hex head bolts, you can put the other caps screws in, but leave them loose. Then raise the arm. Rotate the arm into position, and use the large nut to set the correct height. Tighten the 2 hex head bolts, as tight as you feel you can. The arm should be tight on the shaft. Then lower the arm, tighten the 4 other cap screws, remove the hex head bolts, and replace the last 2 cap screws. If you did it right, you won't have to adjust anything. I should be easier, to loosen the taper clamp, if you need to do it again.

[Sierra Nevada]

I still can not get anything to loosen up. I have turned on the machine and tapped the shaft upwards with a 6 pound sledge(aluminum in between) and still nothing. I have taken some pics and posted them maybe this will help clear things up?
By the way thanks for the help!!

[Sierra Nevada]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/44401439@N07/?saved=1

[claya]

Um.. You have the arm off. Yours is splined, there is no taper lock...... I wouldn't pound the shaft. My machine has a barrel cam, that rotates a cast claw shaped lever. The claw lever slides the shaft up and down. Looks like the barrel cam is stuck mid cycle, or the link is jammed. No way to describe how to fix this in words.

On My MV-JR, you have to take out the barrel cam to remove/replace the claw lever.

[underthetire]

OK, MV45 is totally a hydraulic ATC. There are no cams, motors or the like in that machine. Pounding on it will only break it. I don't think i've EVER had to re-align a MV45 arm in all my years. It's ALWAYS the hydraulic gear rack from the 60, 120 deg etc. There are ways to get it back, none require removing/pounding on stuff. You will break the rack if you continue to pound on it! It requires getting the arm between up and down and playing with solenoids just right to get things lined back up. I will usually always give ideas how to fix it, but you have brought out the hammer and i'm afraid what has happened already. Call in a professional !

[t_blake10]

I had this same problem on a MV 45 I was running about a year and a half ago. I don't recall having to pound on anything. After 2 days of trying to fix it I ended calling a service man who had it fixed in just a couple of hours.

[vfsi]

I have resolved the timing / position issue of my tool changer arm.
To fix it, I had to rotate the arm ONE rack tooth from the 60 degree rack to the 180 degree rack. This is easiest to do with two people, one manually operates the hydraulic valve that controls one of the racks, rotating the arm about one tooth (or as many as needed). The other person watches for the correct alignment of the arm. When aligned, the arm is manually shifted (using the hydraulic valve) to the other rack. I could do it again in 30 minutes after spending a month searching for the method to do it the first time.

The root of my problem is in the I/O board or wiring. The end of travel switches in the tool changer function correctly as measured with a voltmeter but the controller shows 2 I/O points that never turn off, (arm up, 180 rack at zero). I have traced the wires into the control cabinet and the signals there are correctly switching. I must have some Inputs on the board that have failed in the ON position. My guess anyway. Anybody have any insight.

[B Godard]

Ah yes. The old rack style tool changers on the old vertical Mori Seiki's. they are always a problem child. I personally have experienced this a couple of times myself. I cant explain every detail here on the forum but I know first you have to remove the guide/nut off of the top of the ATC shaft and then you'll have to manually poke the valves in the right sequence to get it to work. A couple of times I had to turn off hydraulics and bleed the 180 rotation valve so that i could force it into place and to line up on the right tooth of the rack. Dont forget to allways complete the manual step cycle with an M88. You wont see it move but you'll here the valves click. If you cant get it fixed then shoot me an email and I think that I could help you.

[underthetire]

Your arm most likely will not simply come loose and turn, like the rest of these guys seem to think it will. You have the early ATC. There is two hydraulic racks in that system, and basically it skipped a tooth on the racks. Its a ***** to get them back, you basically have to manually operate the up/down solenoid till you get the arm between the two racks, then you can move it back to position. Manually activate back to up position. Been doin those for years, and it can still take me 4+ hours of screwing around sometimes. Good luck.

[SPetach]

I have had to re-synchronise our MV-55 several times already. No removing the arm or hammering is needed. The problem is likely the solid state relay board driving the soleniods that is causing the synchronisation problem.

The important thing on the hydraulic tool changers is to know where in the sequnce the arm currently is.

Tool pot down
spindle orient
tool lock unclamp
tool arm +60 deg (spindle)
tool lock clamp
drawbar release
tool arm down
tool arm 180 deg
tool arm up
drawbar clamp
tool lock release
tool arm -60 deg (home)
tool pot up
tool arm 180 deg returns to 0 deg

Keeping the sequence in mind, the arm can be operated manually by the hydraulic valves located above the pump unit. There is a plate inside the door that indicates which valve does what.

If the gear has gotten out of synch with the rack, I will reset the other rack to its 0 position. The arm can only move down at the spindle position- do not force it down when in the home position.
If the arm is down, the easiest is to press E-stop to shut off the hydraulics, align the arm to the spindle position, use a hydraulic jack to lift the arm back up to the spindle, (remember to have reset the 60 deg rack at the +60 position), release E-stop to start the hydraulics then use the valve to return to home position. M88 at the end should finish and clear the cycle.

[Juan Jose]

I need help I have an alarm POWER OFF AT ATC CYCLE OR STEP and on the screen is active instruction LSK and won't let me make movements, already modify parameters 6006 and 7099 but won't let me run any instruction, help please I have a week stop the machine, what more can I do