[tomekeuro85]

Ok, so heres my situation... (Sorry for the book-length post, but I need assistance)

My dad owns a machine shop that he has owned for the last 14 years. I work for him now and I have worked there on and off since I started in high school. (about 8 years so far). Only recently (~2 years) have I started doing programming and setups and such, before that I used to run the parts only or put tools together or run the saw. Now that I have graduated college, I work for him full time mainly as a programmer/operator/setup person.

Anyways, I obviously don't know much about the industry since I have only been there full time for less than a year, and I have not worked at any other shops. I enjoy the work, when its busy, but I'm not to thrilled about being at work when there is like 1 hour of work for the day and the rest is just sitting around. When there is work, though, there are very few people who could outpace me and beat the quality I make, at least in consideration of my level of experience.

I use mastercam to program parts, and I am fairly proficient at it. I learned everything I know by just playing around with it and I have gotten to the level where I can make some fairly advanced parts.

Lately, my dad has really been giving me a hard time. He accuses me of not knowing how to do anything, not knowing how to use Mastercam and pretending I do, etc. He tells me that I show up just to collect my paycheck and that I don't care about his business and I dont like it. He pays me $16 an hour and he tells me I'm lucky to even be making that, because people with 20 years of experience don't make that much. When I try to make any suggestions for improvement, he tells me he's the boss, not me, and he has been in this field longer than I have been alive and he has no reason to listen to me because I am useless. On top of that, he wants everything done exactly his way, even if its not necessary; IE using manual programming for some parts when I can use mastercam and do it faster. If I use mastercam anyways, he goes back to the "ive been here longer, im the boss not you, etc" stuff.

In reality, I usually make the same amount of money as him every day, sometimes I'm a bit slower cuz i'm fairly new to this, but still. On average, I can make anywhere from $900-$1200 worth of parts in 8 hours of work, which is just about what he does, and sometimes I make way more in a day than him. I obviously know how to use Mastercam since I make those parts, but he tells me i have no idea what I'm doing. If we get certain jobs where I can run more than 1 machine at once, I sometimes make $3000 in a day.

I have a college degree and I could probably go work somewhere for 2x what he pays me, but I like this field, and I want to stay here, not only to help him now, but to take over the business when he retires. However, with this kind of constantly degrading and insulting environment, I'm seriously starting to consider going somewhere else. It was never like this until I graduated, now all he does is literally watch me and find a reason to yell at me, for even the smallest thing.

What do you guys say about this situation?... Also, with my experience level and such, what would you owners pay me, and what might any of you other guys think I should make?


Again, thanks for the help.

[JROM]

CUT THE CORD
Get out there in the world and answer your own questions.
If you've only worked in one shop you have big time tunnel vison.
If you can setup, program, and run CNC mills you should be making alot more.
It may be hard to do but it will be good for you in the long run. And your dad might learn to appreciate you more after your gone. sorry about the spelling.
I'm a old guy and have worked in alot of shops and I learned something new in everyone of them. Good luck

[HuFlungDung]

Does your Dad's shop really have enough work for the both of you, so far as generating a steady wage for two people, plus the overhead?

Anyone got some bad habits that divert the cash flow?

[Geof]

..... and I want to stay here, not only to help him now, but to take over the business when he retires. However, with this kind of constantly degrading and insulting environment, I'm seriously starting to consider going somewhere else. It was never like this until I graduated, now all he does is literally watch me and find a reason to yell at me, for even the smallest thing.

What do you guys say about this situation?... Also, with my experience level and such, what would you owners pay me, and what might any of you other guys think I should make?


Again, thanks for the help.

I have seen this kind of situation before and sadly there is not any easy resolution. I will pretend I am a shrink and analyses the situation. Try to look at it from your Dad's point of view: Suddenly he is not really needed, you could take over the business, you can do manual programming and Mastercam, you have a college degree...in short you now in many ways outclass your Dad; he feel threatened.

In the short term there is no solution if you stay. Anything you do to try and accommodate your Dad will probably be turned against you. My advice is make a clean break. Tell your Dad the reason up front; "Dad we cannot work together I am going to get experience elsewhere and in a few years if you want me back we can talk." Or something like that. Don't wishy washy.

I went through something similar many years ago. The situation between me and my Dad became really smooth after I migrated to Canada while my family stayed in New Zealand. When I visited home he was really proud of how I had struck out on my own. Unfortunately the silly old git was a smoker so I have not had a Dad to visit for well over 20 years but before he died we had some good visits which made up for the earlier rough stuff.

The one essential thing is that when you leave you look out for your self. No going back for a bit of help with finances and things like that. This can be very tough but it has to be done.

Good luck whatever you choose.

[pointcloud]

Same thing here, different feild...

I am 34 now and it's been a rough road with the fights and constant complaints of how I need to learn more... I did not go to college or even finish high school, I wish I had, but that's a done deal now. If I had went to college I would not have taken the job until he had the respect of me as a person, not a son who could always be better than he is, at least that is what he'll say.. And turn right around a call you a dumb a$$, or you need to listen to me more and learn something..lol...

BS... I say see ya pop... When you need me just call and I'll do my best to help...

I'd say he'll ask you to stay but you need to have a good deal worked out for the both of you... Say 50/50 of the NET after all exspences... Also go out and get some work... Make sure he knows where it came from... About 5 years ago I went on a little road trip with my new girlfriend made a lame excuse that I was going on a sales call to some of our northern customers (she's from MD).. So off I go, I had about 5 good customers picked out to visit. We had sold to them before but hadn't followed up, so I was gone about 3 weeks, seen Niagra falls, nice ride through canada, went to the Arch in MO, drank some beer there too, but I returned with $250,000 in orders.. hehehehehe.. I felt good and since I have gained a few more, I sell over $1.2 m in a year plus run the manufacturing plant which I have a crew of 25 that will produce a gross of $4m... He and I still fight but I often bring this up to him and he'll settle down a little..lol...

I wish he had a machine shop when I was growing up, or even now. He went to tech school for it...lol.. Young blood in a good shop can go a long ways...

All honesty... Have a good heart to heart with him and tell him the truth, but not during a fight or after a fight or first thing in the morning... If I have learned anything I have learned when and how to apporach him.. Go out to lunch, have a good talk let him know that you are concerned your father and son relationship my be in jepordy if things remain the same.. If you can pull your own weight, for real, then he should have no problems cutting you in a little more, maybe not 50/50 up front but a good percentage..

It's a really hard thing... I have seen some good and some bad... Last week we had a meeting concerning a land sale, where a developer had gotten investors up to make the purchase... This is good.. The investor sent his son, yea.. They are purchasing our retail store and land surrounding it, then the plans go way out there.. The total project movie theaters, 500 condos, 10 or 20 resterants, is projected to cost the investor $80m.. The son is 21 years old... I'd say it's working better for them, than it is for you and I..

Good luck and this is on you... I have done it for the last 18 years... But would never confirm what YOU should REALLY DO... Proof is in the pudding and I made him some pudding, took a while but I did it....

[tomekeuro85]

Right now, its not only my dad and I who work there. My dad's brother in law, who is also his partner, works there, as well as another guy we have for cutting, deburring, and other non-cnc work.

As for bad habits, the only bad habit my dad has is not taking home enough money. Last year, they had a profit (after salary) of about $170,000. Instead of taking even a little bit of that, my dad left it all in the business, as did my uncle, and they didn't have a problem with not taking it. Theres plenty of money here, considering we only have 3 actual workers.

As far as work amount, theres plenty of it. Any time until the last 2 months, there has been enough work for me to go 12 hour days, 5 days a week. The last 2 months is where we have been pretty dry, but we just got a new customer that should pick things up a bit.

I would try to look for new customers, but I have absolutely no idea where to look and my dad doesn't tell me these kinds of things because "It's his business". If I had the ability to find new customers, I would. He could probably get some new ones, but he thinks we (meaning me only) couldn't handle the work, which I can.

There was a job we just finished for the government that he kept telling me was too much for me, too hard for me, etc etc.
YET, I took note and after all was done, I did over 60% of the blueprints in the job, and my dad and uncle split the other 40% between the 2 of them. Of course, they had a bit of other stuff to do, but still, he was convinced I was not able to do it, and I did. But STILL I'm not good enough. I dont know what I'm supposed to do here, run the shop myself?

[HuFlungDung]

Do you suppose that your Dad is just a wee bit jealous that you actually get some personal profit in the form of a paycheck? I can understand he might feel bitterness, but it sounds like it could be entirely of his/their own choosing.

Sure, I've done a lot of plowing money back into my business, too, when I was struggling to get it off the ground. But, I smartened up eventually.

I think the lights turned on for me when I formed a limited company. At that point, what belonged to my company was my company's property, not mine, even though I could eventually liquidate it and get some portion of the assets back, but with tax penalties, of course.

Now, I insist on paying myself, come hell or high water. No use living like a pauper so that the company looks rosy as hell, because there ain't nobody gonna thank me for having a wonderful company (on paper) while living an austere lifestyle. I find it easier to take a decent wage, pay my share of income tax on a monthly basis, and end up with some personal savings when its all over and done with.

[pointcloud]

Getting business in this feild would be difficult if you don't know where to look.

Some places to start....Not sure what knid of machines you all have but, if you want some light stuff try Local county and city government, local farms, Farm equipment dealers, body shops, automotive repair shops, Local manufacturing businesses, I could go on about the local things, but be creative. You sound like a guy who knows what's up.. Ask your self What could I make and sell to anybody?

What industry is near you? Hit'em up, there looking at price and quality, you say your good so get the price and they be sold... Sure there are som old timers that would never change to a different shop, but they like our Dads are getting old too.. so somebody will have to fill there shoes...Why not you?

Get some jobs and hand him a big fist full of CASH, he'll love it.... He'll come around if you can stick it out, but do you want to stick it out?

It wasn't about money for me, I wanted to be closer to my father. That never happend, maybe in another year or two.. It's all for sale and he's claiming he wants to take a year and just travel with me and my children.. If this all works out, I guess I chose the best thing..

[Ken_Shea]

Could it be that Dad may just be a wee bit correct in his analysis

I can see two possible indicators / potential problems here
1) It was never like this until I graduated
2) but I'm not to thrilled about being at work when there is like 1 hour of work for the day and the rest is just sitting around.

I sure know that #2 would set me off as an employer if I was paying hourly wages.

[Mariss Freimanis]

Sounds pretty much like what my dad treated me like when I was younger. Some things to consider:

1) My opinion of myself and my abilities was much greater than what they actually were worth at the time. As time passed my abilities grew while my opinion of them shrank. Eventually the two met and reached agreement.

2) Your dad loves you. You are the most important thing he has ever done in life. He is working to hone off the rough edges he sees in you to make you the man you will be one day. It is hard on you but it's work that must be done. He is doing it with love because he believes in you.

You must be 22 (14 for a freshman plus 8). It is a tough time. You worked hard to get thru college yet you feel you get no respect. Your dad knows what it took to do that but he also sees what's missing, The world is a hard, tough place that doesn't care about what you have done, it only cares about what you will do in the future. Your dad is knows this.

3) Don't be a traitor to your family; you will rip their hearts out. Only your family loves you. What your dad is doing he is doing because he loves you.

You are 22. A few years ago everything in your universe was about you while in a few years everything in your universe will be for others. That is the way your dad sees life. You are still changing. Unless your dad is a psycho bastard he doing what by his lights is the very best he can do for you.

Mariss

[MrWild]

Mariss made some good points, but there has to be more than meets the eye here.

1. Are you living at home with Mom and Dad?

2. If so, do you give them at least $125 every week to cover room and board? If you do live with them and you don't, you are a man now. Start carrying your weight. Your father's issues may not be work related at all but maybe life related.

2. Did you live away from home for college?

3. Did you move out of the house after you completed college?

4. Who paid for your college and expenses? If your parents, was there any talk of reimbursing them?


There may not be any real issues at work, but your mother may hobble your dad from speaking his mind at home and the shop is where he gets to let off steam. I really don't know, but thought I'd ask these questions so you could look at the situation as a whole and see if there are other reasons for his attitude.