[PinMan]

I am trying to load programs from a CncGcoder handheld to my Fagor 8055M Mill and I'm not having any luck. After trying all the solutions presented by Fagor Automation, I am turning here for help

When I set up the controller to recieve the program, it waits and then I get the 'End of Attempts' message. I have checked the DNC parameters in the control and on the handheld, they all are matched up correctly. The handheld appears to be sending the program but it is not being recieved by the CNC.

I have also checked the 9pin to 25pin serial connections for any loose or default there. Nothing seems to be wrong with the connections.

I have followed all the guidelines from http://www.fagor-automation.com/CNC/..._232_Setup.pdf unfortunately this is the only help that I have found so far.

Thank you in advance for any assistance I recieve

[Al_The_Man]

I take it you have the correct pins jumpered out on the 25 pin, I would suggest the more common jumpers of 4-5 and 6-8-20 on the 25 pin end.
If the unit is bi-directional, does it take an upload from the Fagor to the unit?
The alternative is to either get hold of a break-out box or try a PC portable with a 9 pin serial port and one of the free comm programs.
Al.

[PinMan]

I did make sure the correct pins where jumpered. It is a bi-directional connection but I am unable to upload from the Fagor.

Update: After a little bit of adjusting to the parameters for the serial port, I was able to get the controller to recognize that the handheld is connected. Unfortunately, I am still unable to load a program into the controller or vise-versa. I have made a little bit of progress though lol.

[DareBee]

I had issues with my 8040. It turned out it wouldn't read because my baud rate was too LOW.
The control has settings for the low baud but i couldn't get it to work until i cranked it way up.
The machine manufacturer also had the serial port wired wrong but you said you have checked yours.

[cam1]

Hi:
Fagor automation has a WinDNC application for free, that allows a straight through serial cable from a PC to be used. The program is easy to use, and I had it up and running uploading and downloading from the 8055M in minutes.It also alllows you to backup all of the parameters
Also: The tech support for Fagor is really good here in Ontario, look them up and ask for Mohit, this guy is really sharp.He has walked me through many problems.

regards

[gar]

080213-1947 EST USA

cam1:

Suggesting a straight thru cable means nothing without further clarification.

To be helpful provide information with the exact wiring and pinouts.

.

[cam1]

Hi: A non cross over serial cable, the kind you would purchase at Best Buy etc.
Pin 1 to 1 etc.

cheers

[cam1]

Try this link:

http://www.fagor-automation.com/Appl...20rs%20232.pdf

PS I'm trying to be helpful, so ease up on the "to be helpul comments"

regards

[Kiwi]

Suggest you go direct from the 9 pin connector at the back of the Controller Module and by pass the 25 pin plug.

[gar]

080213-2227 EST USA

cam1:

Now that you have provided a Fagor circuit diagram there is some useful information.

Since Fagor is using a 9 pin RS232 connector with the same definitions as as a 9 pin PC connector, and since the most likely connector on most moderately new, last 20 years, PCs is a 9 pin connector, then it is not a straight thru cable defined by pin X to pin X. Furthermore, Fagor shows a cable for use with software handshake.

This is why a more complete definition of a cable is important.

I see too many comments like "do this ---- " and you are "good to go." with inadequate supporting evidence of why.

.

[Kiwi]

080213-2227 EST USA
I see too many comments like "do this ---- " and you are "good to go." with inadequate supporting evidence of why..

The reason for my suggestion was my controller had a 25 pin connection on the front which was installed by the mill manufacturer but not as Fagors recommendations.

My Fagor 8055M is wired as per the illustration on the web site link on post #8 by Cam1.

[DareBee]

I connect to mine using a "handshake cable". If I remember correctly it is because Mohit (Fagor) provided the electrical connection defining such.
This same cable also works my 94 Fadal and my 81 Sodick.

Kiwi and I share the same experience. My machine had a 25 pin connector attached to Fagor's 9 Pin. The 25 pin WAS wired wrong. I rewired it and I have used the 25 pin with no issues.

I use Fagor's version of WinDNC and I had to set the baud rate very high or comm would not work.

Theoretically I could use a "straight through" cable if I rewired the machine builders "scab" cable into a crossover configuration.

[gar]

080214-0849 EST USA

If you go from a 25 pin to a 9 pin connector what is straight thru?

25 Pin            9 Pin

  TxD    2 - 2    RxD
  RxD    3 - 3    TxD
SigGND   7 - 5    SigGND

Not by my definition or any reasonable logical definition. But that is the signal wiring from a 25 pin Fanuc or HAAS to a 9 pin IBM PC excluding the handshake signals. In this case with only these leads used the 7 - 5 makes it not straight thru.

.

[TonyOW31]

I had a comms problem with my Fagor control as well, I was trying to use a laptop with an usb to rs232 convertor, and it would not work at all, brought the desktop in, and it was all working within 10 minutes. That was going straight in to the 9 pin in the back of the control.
The 25pin connection on the machine was wired wrong like the others on here, seems so common that there must be a reason for it.

[gar]

080214-2055 EST USA

There maybe nothing wrong with the 25 pin connector wiring you are referencing as wrong. It may simply be that you lack a definition on how the connector is wired.

What defines right vs wrong? Is it that you expect one standard and a different standard is used to define the connection? This is why I do not like the terms --- "DTE" "DCE" ---. I much prefer that you tell me what is each pin's function, and logically what each pin does, then I will figure out how to wire them.

To start, you always know that a source TxD has to be wired to a destination RxD, that destination TxD has to be wired to the source RxD. Signal commons have to be tied together. You can choose to define which end is source and which is destination. But in a bi-directional communication source and destination switch back and forth, and may simultaneously communicate.

Maybe these should be called END-1 and END-2 instead of source and destination to avoid confusion.

.

[DareBee]

Tony
I use a laptop with a USB to Serial adapter with no issues ever, well... I do have to verify which port it is assigned to and adjust accordingly.

Gar
1) Fagor's RS232 cable wiring specs (FROM THE MANUAL) are common for a lot of CNC (the same as my Fadal and Sodick).
2) When I plug THAT cable into my 25pin on the machine and ohm out the wires I get continuity at the WRONG PINS.
3) The definition of wrong pins is determined by looking in the FAGOR WIRING DIAGRAMS and SEEING where the SIGNAL was SUPPOSED TO BE (at the serial port soldered onto the controls MOBO) relative to where it ACTUALLY is.

IMO you are NOT being very helpful here.

[gar]

080215-0838 EST USA

DareBee:

There are a number of users that have reported failure of USB to RS232 adapters to work successfully with CNCs. Others have reported success. If yours works, then define the particular model.

On the RS232 cable problem.

Your point 1. At the Fagor CNC are you talking about a 25 pin connector or a 9 pin and what sex? The circuit from cam1 in post 8 shows a 9 pin connector for Fagor, but the sex is not defined. Since the pin numbers and pin definitions are the same as for a 9 pin IBM PC, then we might assume that the connector is a male and thus the cable would require a female connector. The sex here is of no importance other than in the purchase of connectors or a preassembled cable.

If we connect two devices, a computer and a CNC, together and both have 9 pin connectors with exactly the same pin definitions, then the cable CAN NOT be straight thru and 2 must go to 3, 3 to 2, and 5 to 5. What is done with the handshake pins is function of other information.

The Fadals I am familiar with have a 25 pin connector at the CNC with the same pin definitions as Fanuc but the CNC connector is male instead of the female used on Fanuc and HAAS.

For any common RS232 pinouts there is never a straight thru cable from a 9 pin to a 25 pin connector. Pin 5 to 7 is just not straight thru.


I do not understand your comment 2. What is "that" cable? Is it a 25 to 25, 25 to 9, 9 to 25, or 9 to 9. Are there Fadals with a 9 pin connector?


Your comment 3. Is there a diagram reference that can be displayed here as a reference?


Some useful trouble shooting information follows:

A multimeter can be used to determine the likely function of certain pins without any other knowledge than several assumptions.

Assume:

We know the connector is RS232 and nothing external is connected.

The machine chassis is connected to RS232 common. This can be checked with an ohmmeter with machine power off. On a 25 pin connector we expect pin 1 to go directly to chassis, also pin 7 (in the case of HAAS pin 7 goes thru a 100 ohm resistor to chassis).


On these assumptions:

With power on and no data being sent TxD should be more negative than -5 V relative to chassis ( the chassis itself, or pin 1 or 7 on a 25 pin connector, or pin 5 on a 9 pin connector). On CNCs probably around -10, and older computers. On some newer computers (Dell in particular) and laptops it may be about -5. Some laptops may be near zero when not enabled for RS232 communication.

When data is being sent and with a voltmeter in AC position (assuming a series capacitor --- Simpson 260-270 needs to be in AC and red lead in the Output terminal, the black lead would be in common/- terminal), then the reading should be about the same as the rest state DC reading, and should go to zero when no data is being sent.

RxD should read about zero DC volts.

Most common is that pins 2 and 3 are used for TxD and RxD or reversed on either a 9 pin or 25 pin connector.

If you work with software handshake, then the only pins needed are TxD, RxD, and signal common for data transfer. However, some CNCs, Fanuc in particular, may require hardware handshake signals forced to a specific state in order to communicate. HAAS requires nothing more than the 3 signal wires connected for softwaare handshake mode.

If hardware handshake lines need to be in some particular state to allow sending, then these would need to be jumpered to run the data output tests.

.

[DareBee]

Thank you Gar this is very specific and informative.

A bit of miscommunication perhaps.
I believe it was someone else who started the "straight thru cable" thing and I have never been under the assumption that a Future shop serial cable would work on a CNC.

You are also WAY more knowledgeable than me on the subject.

I will however add a few more tidbits of what I do know.

080215-0838 EST USA

DareBee:

There are a number of users that have reported failure of USB to RS232 adapters to work successfully with CNCs. Others have reported success. If yours works, then define the particular model..

This has been discussed in other threads.
It is Cables to go brand
USB to serial adapter #26886
Complete with Port Authority 2 software.
This has worked on every computer I have ever tried it on. 3 different laptops and 1 desktop so far (oldest being a P3 800 on Win 2000).

[QUOTE=gar;]On the RS232 cable problem.

I have attached the wiring diagram for the cable I made for my Fadal. Which as mentioned, I use on my other machines including my Fagor 8040T.

Re Fagor, there is a 9 pin serial connector on the Fagor motherboard. Male - female - I don't recall and have no desire to disassemble the controller cabinet to look.
It is there for the machine builder to cable to a port that is accessible to the user.
The machine builder (in my case a Taiwanese company that ships this exact machine over here under many different brands - mine being a "Turrett") saw fit to attach this 9 pin serial to a 25 pin user port. This cable, is what was wired incorrectly IMO.

Most of my rambling is common knowledge to you or I but it is sometimes good to include the details for others benefit.

[cam1]

Hmmm.
Had Fagor (Mohit) on site, took RS 232 9 pin male/female extension cable from Future shop (yes from future shop), plugged into PC ,plugged into mill (DB9F) and with WinDNC, established communications immediately. Must have been lucky for once in my life.

[gar]

080215-2105 EST

cam1:

Your last post says that you used a 9 pin male to 9 pin female extension cord between the PC and Fagor. That most likely implies a straight thru cable. And you say that the Fagor CNC connector is female.

Since this connection works it implies that pin 2 at Fagor is TxD but that is not what the previous circuit diagrams show, they show it as RxD.

Can you run the voltmeter test on Fagor pin 2 and see if it is in fact TxD?

.