[Skyfire]

Defeng,

Looks like a nice workshop. Good luck there...

Thank you Louie~ Check you machine delivery pictures..lol

And the last shaft coupling, linears (didn't take the rail pictures)

[louieatienza]

Thank you Louie~ Check you machine delivery pictures..lol

And the last shaft coupling, linears (didn't take the rail pictures)

Pretty excited... The countdown is on. I better get my controller finished.

[asuratman]

Hi Defeng,
Nice machineshop, thanks for pics.

[jips]

Clean worshop Defeng as your work and good weather for the BBQ . I really like this type of case I used to use it and it's a pretty good choice . Good point for the washers it's this kind of details that make the difference and reflect your sense of precision and finishing !

[handlewanker]

Hi Defeng.........I hope you don't machine cast iron in that new place.........NOTHING, but absolutely nothing makes a place more grimy and filthy than cast iron dust......you can't even vacuum it out successfully......don't even ask me how I know, having worked in places that machine cast iron....Uggggh, I can still taste it after more than 50 years or so.

That power drawbar actuator looks quite neat.....it appears to have a worm drive ball screw design arrangement from the photo of it.......it would most likely be geared down quite a lot to get the thrust..........good thing it's AC, makes the transformer a simple supply solution.

So.....would it be fitted above the spindle on stand offs with the base plate at the top?.......and then attached to a split collar clamped to the top of the mill spindle body making it an assembly that stayed on the mill spindle when it's replaced with the high speed spindle.

The clamping to the mill spindle body would have to be quite firm as it has to resist the up thrust of the unit when it actuates against the draw bar end......possibly with grub screws that locked into dimples on the mill spindle body which would negate having to use too much clamping pressure.

The type of grub screws I'm thinking of are socket type with ends that are short straight pins.....4 should do the trick........I think there is enough body thickness to allow drilling of shallow holes for the grub screws.......it might be wise to have the holes put in by the spindle manufacturer.

Can we have a price......it appears to be the ideal solution in a very compact package even with a 210mm length......150mm is even better........just gotta have it....LOL.

I assume "normally" it will be activated manually by a push button on the head casting side......could it also be activated by Mach3 if an ATC solution is attempted?......possibly with just a plug in point on the control box?

Louie's going to be watching every ship on the horizon waiting for his "box" to arrive.......LOL

Louie......you could have used the box as a pseudo enclosure if it was wider....like Henry Ford's packing case car running boards.
Ian.

[louieatienza]

I believe the manual mill was for machining castings as Defeng mentioned. Nonetheless it us a nice work area, clean shop means clean work.

No need to wait for a ship... Rather waiting for shipping from port to destination. Hope the customs wait is not too bad.

[handlewanker]

Well, when the production escalates as no doubt it will, cast iron dust will be the most invasive element.

If I were Defeng, I'd partition the building off or extend it to have a separate area purely for castings and machining them.

BTW.........looking at the very neat and compact electric power draw bar arrangements for the SVM-0 mill and I thought why not have that for the SVM-1 and 2 as well....it's very neat and compact and airless too...........the pressure for the push is about the same for all the taper releases.......I wasn't too impressed at the massive air cylinder draw bar in one photo of the SVM-1 & 2 some time back.

NO ONE, BUT NO ONE, really wants to have a compressor cycling away just to do tool changing, and everyone buying the mills will have electricity on tap.

If an air cylinder power draw bar was the only option for the SVM-0 I'd reject it out of hand and design and fit my own design.

Defeng.....in the photo of the electric actuator it has the square base plate at the bottom and the push rod part at the top which means it has to be turned upside down to push on the top of the draw bar.......if you are redesigning the unit......how about making the push rod part go down through the base instead of out of the top (the push rod will then be in a pull mode to make it go downwards)......this will make mounting it simpler with the stand offs for mounting it now under the base attached to the split clamping ring around the top of the spindle body.

I don't know if this mod is possible, but from the photos it would appear simple to do.
Ian.

[louieatienza]

99.9% of users would likely prefer a pneumatic ram, especially if the goal is ATC. It's just so much faster and more powerful for a given size. It doesn't require anywhere near the amount of air that would drain a compressor tank, unless maybe you program a hundred tool changes and use a pancake compressor. As to looks, a shroud or cover would do, as every single machine manufacturer uses.

[handlewanker]

yeah Louie, split seconds in cycle time must count when you're in production.....I know a guy who runs his machine overnight.....it waits for him in the morning when the job is done.....LOL.

I'll leave the pneumatic power draw bar for you to mess with.....with a 50mm stroke the electric power draw bar must take all of 3 seconds to activate.....wow, that's long....... maybe Defeng can shave a second off and improve it a bit.....LOL.

I'll settle for a slow heavy push any day if it does the job efficiently.....oh yeah, I forgot.......how much would the pneumatic solution cost compared to the electric one?....I don't really want to know, just asking.
Ian.

[rustyh]

I'll leave the pneumatic power draw bar for you to mess with.....with a 50mm stroke the electric power draw bar must take all of 3 seconds to activate.....wow, that's long....... maybe Defeng can shave a second off and improve it a bit.....LOL.
Ian.

Great sarcastic attitude to have from the god of CNC design


Im no specialist, but dont 90% of high qaulity CNC mills use air draw bars / ATC's??
If so, there must surely be a reason to that

[mcphill]

Im no specialist, but dont 90% of high qaulity CNC mills use air draw bars / ATC's??
If so, there must surely be a reason to that

It's cheap, proven, and reliable. Not qualities the Wanker finds necessary...

[ihavenofish]

air, hydraulic, or air over hydraulic are whats used in almost every machine. if you dont have a compressor, i could see the desire for something else. but any alternative is generally a big compromise in one way or another. if you Do have a compressor, there is no reason to entertain anything but an air cylinder.

[yulolaf]

How can you have a workshop and NOT have a compressor? It's as essential as a drill press and grinder imo or else you are just toying around. For that reason an air cylinder pdb/atc makes perfectly logical sense.

[rustyh]

I’ve gone for an air cylinder on my SVM-2 thanks to Defengs recommendations on reliability, I have a small air compressor but happy to invest in a better one if required to make my machine work as it should with no faffing around

Im glad I trusted Defengs recommendation now from the above comments, Defeng is clearly a clever chap on CNC design
I certaintly wouldnt put my trust in recommendations wanker makes!!

[handlewanker]

So........have a blast with your air draw bar......I care not for air draw bars.

Defeng is working on an electric power draw bar.....that's my choice.....I'll wait until he develops it for sale......if he decides the electric power draw bar is a no go, I'll use the design I have.....nothing rocket science in a power draw bar.

BTW.....I do have a compressor in the "shop".....just don't like an air draw bar......did the message finally get through?

Rustyh..........learn how to spell or get your spell checker fixed....its Defeng, not Defneg...........rotflmao....
Ian.

[skillalot]

If I were Defeng.

Well, let's just thank the gods you are not! All the stuff I see you posting, not a single engineer would agree with you on anything.
It's your machine, and if you want it build the way you want, how stupid it is, then that's your choice. But don't praise all your ideas to heaven...

[handlewanker]

One thing ya'all overlook.....the SVM-0 is a small mill using ISO 20 tooling compared to the larger industrial stuff with ISO 30, 40, R8 etc, so it can benefit from the smaller far more compact and neater electrical power draw bar.

DEFENG will ensure it's adequate for the job.......even with the ISO 20 tooling, it will have enough force to push the bar down......who needs air.

BTW, if the electric power draw bar is adequate for the SVM-0 using the ISO 20 tooling, going to anything larger, say ISO 30 or R8 for TTS stuff would just mean a slightly larger electric one not a huge air solution.

Unclamping pressure does not get into the tons of pressure class even with bigger draw bars and tooling......if it did, the air cylinder would be bigger than the mill......LOL.....and so would the compressor.

I would suggest .......respectfully of course.....that if time to unclamp tools is so important, perhaps ya'all need to invest in a course for advanced Gcode programming which would be better to maximise the cycle time instead of quacking about a few seconds pushing a button for QCT with an electric solution.

Under Mach3 control and with ATC in the picture, the electric power draw bar is controlled by the program, so the cycle time is hardly affected anyway.....wise up, ya' blinkers are on too tight.......LOL.
Ian.

[louieatienza]

One thing ya'all overlook.....the SVM-0 is a small mill using ISO 20 tooling compared to the larger industrial stuff with ISO 30, 40, R8 etc, so it can benefit from the smaller far more compact and neater electrical power draw bar.

DEFENG will ensure it's adequate for the job.......even with the ISO 20 tooling, it will have enough force to push the bar down......who needs air.

BTW, if the electric power draw bar is adequate for the SVM-0 using the ISO 20 tooling, going to anything larger, say ISO 30 or R8 for TTS stuff would just mean a slightly larger electric one not a huge air solution.

Unclamping pressure does not get into the tons of pressure class even with bigger draw bars and tooling......if it did, the air cylinder would be bigger than the mill......LOL.....and so would the compressor.

I would suggest .......respectfully of course.....that if time to unclamp tools is so important, perhaps ya'all need to invest in a course for advanced Gcode programming which would be better to maximise the cycle time instead of quacking about a few seconds pushing a button for QCT with an electric solution.

Under Mach3 control and with ATC in the picture, the electric power draw bar is controlled by the program, so the cycle time is hardly affected anyway.....wise up, ya' blinkers are on too tight.......LOL.
Ian.

Now you've gone off rhe deep end.

First, if you weren't planning on using larger tools, then why on God's green earth did you order ER32 toolholders for you ISO20 spindle? Do you have 1mm endmills with 25mm shanks?

Defeng has gone out of his way to accommodate your whims. NOT because it's a better or even a good way. The air cylinders I've seen here and on Tormachs and Novakons are nowhere near as large, or heavy, as a 1-ton actuator or screw jack. Plus it's more complicated.

Also you seem to be a bit confused about how the air cylinders work. The compressor won't be running constantly. Where do you get this notion?

As to respectfully suggesting... you've never been respectful with anyone from the start, save for your transparent and obvious butt-kissing. It's really pathetic. You should hope that after you're burned every bridge here that some poor soul will still help you when you stare glaze-eyed at your machine with absolutely no clue what to do.

And how do you think Mach3 controls the draw bar? Magic? Is it built in? Maybe you can.explain to the peanut gallery how to implement ATC through Mach3. You don't even.know how to configure and tune your machine in Mach3. I suppose Defeng will have to save you there as well...

[handlewanker]

Louie......what you have to say is most probably valid, in a roundabout way, but I will learn to accommodate any problem I encounter, just as I have always done over the years.

Incidentally, where did you get the notion that I thought a compressor needed to be running all the time.......LOL.......give some credit for people knowing how their equipment works......on off, on off, on off......puff puff etc, and it stops when the pressure is up.

I opted for the ER32 chucks as they are able to hold larger shanks even if the actual cutting bit is smaller........I prefer to have a large shank rather than a smaller one........THAT IS MY PREROGATIVE......and the ER32 series goes down to 2mm........I also have several sets of the ER32 collets and don't want to outlay for another complete new series.........a set of the ER 20 collets for the High speed spindle will suffice for probably all my carving and engraving needs.

No doubt I'll work out the necessary for the power draw bar application.....,manual or otherwise.

By no stretch of the imagination is the air draw bar on the SVM-1 small and compact compared to the prospective electric one for the SVM-0.........pic attached in case you forgot how large it is.

With your infinite wisdom, inform me as to how big you think an air cylinder needs to be to give an 800 lb pull to the SVM-0 draw bar.......it ain't gonna be a small one........possibly a 2 stage job.......now that would be cracking a walnut with a sledge hammer........I'll wait for the electric one Defeng is developing, thank you very much maam.
Ian.

[louieatienza]

Ian it was YOU, a few posts ago, who had concerns about a compressor running all day, or did you forgot? K

You'll need ER-20 collets for the high speed spindle. It would make more sense to be able to use them for both spindles rather than needing to have a set for each.

I don't the the cylinder on the SVM-2 is excessively large. And I bet you it's way lighter than any electric actuator or screw jack.

The 800lb air cylinders I've seen on motorcycle lifts aren't large at all, about the size of a comparable. electric actuator, maybe wider, but shorter. And with my "infinite" wisdom I can tell you the actuator, air or electric, PUSHES on the draw bar, not PULL it.