[popspipes]

wtopace,

It is adaptive roughing waterline in Sprut, with axial plunge. There is no entry angle value that I can see.

Ray

When pocketing you usually have a longer stickout, that will affect the outcome as well, i would try just lightening up on the doc and woc. I am thinking the stickout is the problem.

[wtopace]

Are you using HSMXpress or HSMWorks? They will do a plunge entry on 2D Adaptive.... However, a helix, or ramp, puts much less stress on the tool and holder, so a straight plunge is more likely to induce pullout, not less.

Regards,
Ray L.

I believe he is using Sprutcam

[SCzEngrgGroup]

When pocketing you usually have a longer stickout, that will affect the outcome as well, i would try just lightening up on the doc and woc. I am thinking the stickout is the problem.

How long is the tool? Given the relatively easy cut you were attempting, and the carbide tool, even 1.75" stick-out should be no problem at all. I routinely go much deeper with HSS 2-flutes with >1.5" stick-out.

You should try a smaller step-over, and go deeper, if possible. My standard (NOT maximum effort) roughing cut for 2D adaptive is 5900 RPM, 0.25" DOC, 0.05" WOC, 110 IPM using a HSS 2-flute. I know the Tormach will easily handle very close to that, just scaling for the slightly lower RPM. For the helical entry, use 3-5 degrees, at 70 IPM, using a 0.25" diameter helix.

Regards,
Ray L.

[m1carbine]

The tool is spec to have 1.25 flute length, the measured comp. height was 3.9" ish. A quick measure of a tool holder with collet and tool is 2.138 without being cinched down. so that works out to roughly 1.7" hangout of the holder.

Yes it is Sprut with the optional adaptive add on.

I have got all of the HSM/fusion products from autodesk, just haven't had the time to get familiar enough to switch yet.

Ray

Attachment 292706Attachment 292706Attachment 292708

[wtopace]

The tool is spec to have 1.25 flute length, the measured comp. height was 3.9" ish. A quick measure of a tool holder with collet and tool is 2.138 without being cinched down. so that works out to roughly 1.7" hangout of the holder.

Yes it is Sprut with the optional adaptive add on.

I have got all of the HSM/fusion products from autodesk, just haven't had the time to get familiar enough to switch yet.

Ray

Attachment 292706Attachment 292706Attachment 292708

Is it just the camera angle or are the shanks on your TTS holders really that chewed up?? Did that happen just from the single case of pullout or have they been like that for a while?

Have you checked the inside of your R8 collet for damage?

[m1carbine]

wtopace,

One time each for that result. The one on the right was the first and completely trashed the collet, I will try to find it to show it as well. The left one did not noticeably damage the collet. I had two replacement collet delivered 10 minutes ago.

Ray

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Yikes! I've never seen anything like that before!

Regards,
Ray L.

[m1carbine]

Ray,

That is why I am here asking about what others are doing. The end mill went through the 5/8" part and an additional 1/2" into the fixture.

Here is the third photo that was supposed to be in the prior posting.

Ray
Attachment 292710

[Hirudin]

Holy cow, that damage is severe!
I'd definitely be wearing a face shield the next time I ran that same code!

How quickly would you estimate it took it to get through 1.125" of material?

[m1carbine]

Hirudin,

Seconds, it did it in one arc movement of about 2" length.

Ray

[MichaelHenry]

Drawbars are typically wear items, the collet should not be. I've been using the same one for over 5 years, and it still works just fine.

Regards,
Ray L.

My 60-year old MT-2 collets still work fine on my Clausing mill so I tend to agree with you, but for $15 it might be worth a shot.

[R.DesJardin]

I could not disagree more! If you have to modify HOW you cut to prevent pull-out, then you simply do not have enough drawbar tension. Period! I will say it again: With adequate drawbar tension, you will NEVER see ANY pull-out, even with very severe chatter.

Regards,
Ray L.

The OP asked for a solution and since I do have two Tormachs I gave my experience of running a them for many years. Yes pullout can sometimes be an issue but I have learned to stay productive and avoid it. Speeds and Feeds, this is not made up or a guess from someone who doesn't have a clue about owning and operating a Tormach to make money with. I make good money with my 2 PCNC1100's with PDB's and can't say the design has or is hindering me in any way. But of course the comments have again turned into a design debate, it is what it is. Maybe we stay on track with helpful comments and solutions to machining instead of continually using passive aggressive comments to bash the Tormach design. I have chosen to learn how to keep mine running making parts and money and I answered truthfully and without bias to another brand or design.

[handlewanker]

Well, it boils down to not as a speed and feed thing, but as a case of having a sufficient drawbar pull thing.

There should never be a situation with tooling where you have to go easy on the throttle in case the tool becomes a victim of machine design flaws or lack of maintenance as opposed to pushing the tool beyond it's limit in an effort to save a few seconds.

I'm not a great fan of having a stack of springy washers reducing their pressure just when you want more.......... the machine I'm expecting from China does have such a system, but not with R8 and TTS.......it has an ISO20 tool shank and retainer pull pin..... that makes a huge difference as the Bellville washers only have to exert enough up pressure on the draw bar to offset any tool cutting pressure that would try to pull the whole tool holder down......even then, pulling the tool holder down increases the up pull on the tool holder.

This is a whole lot different to requiring the plain shank tool to be squeezed with huge force from a fast nose taper collet in an effort to grip the plain tool shank, and any coolant or oil will make it worse.

I have to wonder if tools with the TTS plain shank are cheaper or more expensive than ISO 30 tooling........generic would be cheaper, they're both quick change types.
Ian.

[m1carbine]

I found the collet.

Ray
Attachment 292750

[popspipes]

Maybe a broken belleville washer?
I have never used a rougher endmill, makes me wonder if those set up some sort of vibration pattern that could cause this?

[m1carbine]

Popspipes,

here are the belleville's.

Ray


Attachment 292762

[SCzEngrgGroup]

I found the collet.

Ray
Attachment 292750

That is really amazing. I never would've thought a collet and toolholder could be so completely destroyed so quickly.

Obviously you have to replace the collet and toolholder. I would also replace the Bellevilles, then get some marking dye, and use it to check the fit of the collet to the spindle, and the toolholder to the collet. I have to believe there was something wrong with one or more of those parts to cause what happened to you. Pull-out is normally only an issue with relatively high-power cuts, which you were not doing. So your system was operating well below normal capability to begin with. Best thing you can do now is make sure the new parts all fit, and are installed, properly, then carefully try the cut again.

Regards,
Ray L.

[Hirudin]

Shred,

The washers are new. After the first pull out ruined the collet, I swapped in a new drawbar and washers while I was placing it.

I have the air set at 110 psi.

Ray

Just reposting this for anyone who missed it on pg. 1.

[popspipes]

Just reposting this for anyone who missed it on pg. 1.

Thanks Hirudin, I missed it........ It will be interesting to see how this pans out.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

I'll be very interested in seeing how this turns out. It's a most unusual case....

Regards,
Ray L.