[AdyAstley]

I sent a mail to Marris and I understand he's busy and that's fine and normal. During waiting for an answer I thought the other guys that know more than most could even help me with a strange problem I created. I admit this is something I did with the help of a trusted friend and caused myself a common problem on all 3 G320 drives so this is not a winge and I really like Gecko's drives and admire the guy who invented the drives and especially G203V as I have this type also.
OK get to the point I hear...I was running my milling conversion for a while all working well on trials, then tried a cut and one of the drives (X axis) stalled and the others run on along with the spindle. This was because I still had my err/res connected to the +5V of the encoder supply. Well I got thinking about some of the solutions and made myself a small circuit that basically used an external 5vdc that went to a button and opened a change-over relay that sits in my limit switch / estop circuit on pin 11. This same 5 volts that actually drives an opto that sends the signal to a 24v relay also went to the drive err/res very similar to using a 3 position switch as in the manual. I tested my circuit without connecting and it worked the 5 volts was there whilst button is pressed and then floated around 2v and if this wire is earthed to 0v it opens the contact and in theory disconnects the circuit to stop all driving. Applying 5 volts resets the relay and voila *I thought!

I then, feeling happy connected the circuit all common to the 3 x err/res terminals and tested it without putting my supply fuses for each drive. The fault light lit up on each drive which I thought strange but paid little thought to it. I then put only the fuse in the x drive supply and pressed the button for the 5 seconds and noticed the x motor jerk and the light flashes but still on fault after letting go of the button.

I then decided to return the whole thing as it was and found that all 3 drives now jerk as soon as I put on the power. I would like to know what it is I did wrong if from this info anyone can guess. The other thing is do I need to buy new drives?

Like I say it was my own fault anyhow for not building a circuit identical to the one posted (due to lack of parts where I am) and the timeline I was trying to work to. I need my garage back so I have to finish this project.

Okay I will check the response before I do much else on the machine.

Many thanks in advance for anyone that has ideas.

I'm not totally crazy but I'm working on it.

[CoAMarcus]

It is very possible that you could have sent more than just the 5V to the drives. If you like, you can send them back to us for evaluation. If you get them to us, we will check them out, fix any problems (provided it IS fixable ;-) ), and mail it back to you free of charge. Once we see the drives we would have a better idea of what exactly went wrong.

If you like, you can send me an email at support at geckodrive dot com. I apologize if any previous emails went unanswered. Thank you.

-Marcus

[tracyranson]

"Labor rates" Do you think he is unionized? If he is I take back every thing I said about him making any profit. <-yikes!#%* Did I say that!

Businesses get scrutinized and bashed everyday by people, customers and other businesses. It is only the strong intelligent ones that can take it with a smile on there face. The reason is a simple rule in business ethics. Business can criticize other business, customers can criticize business, people can criticize business. But under no circumstances should a business criticize a customer. This is called biting the hand that feeds you. This is why the more profitable companies try there damnedest to satisfy even the most unhappy customers. As these are the ones that make the biggest difference. If you can satisfy an unhappy customer it is generally worth the extra effort ten fold. Think of it sort of like a marriage once you get over the bumpy uncomfortable part it is pretty much smooth sailing and it will last though thick and thin. Where is some are easy from the start but jump ship as soon as there are a few waves or a better looking alternative is presented.

What were the numbers

[bsharp]

What were the numbers

Holy Cow! This thread is almost five years old!
I don't even remember half of it.

Basically I had a bad experience with the servo drives and an issue with the support. Not really a big deal "Live and Learn sorta thing". I remember being frustrated about the drives being pretty dainty for my application and had some trouble with them not being reliable. This is not saying they wont work fine for you and your application. I am just saying they did not hit my expectations. The company did give me a full refund. They will repair or replace them at no charge if you like swapping them out like popcorn. I would never recommend them to anyone or use them in anything because I did not like there business ethics and the products are more hobbyist oriented not really industrial quality stuff "unless they changed a lot over the years".

Anyway I have had the machine up and running great with no problems for the past almost five years with a set of good industrial quality digital drives. I have learned so much since back then looking back at this makes it look like a small tiny ripple in my wake. :cheers:

Please note I am not trying to put down any individual or group of individuals. I am just replying with my opinion of a company as best as I can remember to a post made to an old thread that I started years ago. If taken in any other context it is just your perception of it and I am sorry you feel that way but life goes on.

[Mariss Freimanis]

tracyranson,

I don't understand your question. Can you please elaborate?

Mariss

[bsharp]

Ok since this was all started by me I might as well give it a shot so here goes.
I also added a little extra just for kicks!

Estimated drive weight 8 OZ

1 US Ton 2000 lbs

Minimum 20 Ton = 40000 lbs or 80000 drives
Maximum 40 Ton = 80000 lbs or 160000 drives

Average of minimum and maximum is 120000 drives “my guess”

Total average divided by 7 years is 17143 units per year average

Estimated raw product cost per unit 40$

Raw cost multiplied by units per year average 685,714$

Per year unit cost plus 300 percent retail markup = 2,057,143$

Retail markup minus Raw cost per year average = 1,371,429$ Initial Profit

4 employees using national average wage of 45,000 per year = 180,000

Initial profit minus 4 employee wages per year = 1,191,429$

Yearly annual “raw unit cost” loss on one time replacement policy
Based on a 40% return rate = 274,286$

Net profit per year = 917,143$

The actual number was 161,483 drives. If you can believe that. But this also came from a company that posted my credit card info on an online forum Ridicules there customers and yes wait for it ---------------------------------- Claims they now sell US made stepper motors "I want manufacturing facility pictures, location and material certs including the magnets made from within the US" this claim is just total :bs:
They basically are playing on peoples ignorance. Ever wonder why you never here about any real industrial motion distributor selling there products? They stick to the online vendor and forums game directed toward the inexperienced and the hobbyist because they would get destroyed in the real industrial world. When customers ruffle there feathers like high school children the click will gather around to take shots and ridicule. I wouldn't worry about them screwing you out of your prize winning because there stuff isn't worth salt to begin with. Cheap old technology that they keep patching up to sell as a "improved" product. After this post you will see the proof of what I have said and the childish antics and bad ethics associated with them.

So lets start the ball rolling set back, have a beer and see if anyone has grown up any! LOL

If anything I said was wrong then prove it!!!!!! :devious:

[Mariss Freimanis]

"it look like a small tiny ripple in my wake."

I agree with you; little boats and little men leave a small, tiny wake.:-)

[aarggh]

"it look like a small tiny ripple in my wake."

I agree with you; little boats and little men leave a small, tiny wake.:-)

Hey Mariss,

Just smile, and walk away!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWOE4S1p7NA]just smile and walk away - YouTube[/ame]

BTW, lovin my G540! Fantastic product and damn good value, and I plan on putting them on all my machines that suit!

But what about a G540 with a higher current rating, say 4.5A, even if in a larger case? That'd be awesomely usefull and cover a massive range of steppers!

cheers,
Ian

[Mariss Freimanis]

aarggh,

Good advice. I'll follow it.

About the G540. It's one of those "everything is connected to everything else" designs meaning if one thing is changed, it has repercussions in many places you wouldn't think of.

Example: The G250 drives used in the G540 have 500mW 0.056 Ohm current sense resistors. While the motors are running, the RMS current at 3.5A peak is 2.5A for a resistor dissipation of 343mW. Everything is good with the world as far as those resistors are concerned.

Should the motor stop at microstep 10 (sine 90 degrees), the dissipation at 3.5A would be a not so good 680mW except for the fact the drives go into a standby reduction current of 70% (2.5A again).

At 4.5A, the resistors would see an unsupportable 1,130mW dissipation at peak current or 570mW RMS or standby. Good practice would mean these would have to be much larger 1W rated resistors.

The circuit-board trace width is scaled to 3.5A. These traces would have to be 130% wider to accept 4.5A currents. The tyranny of scale applies to the power MOSFETs. The rule of thumb we use is the MOSTET current rating must be 5 times the RMS current passing through the MOSFET. The ones we use in the G250 drives are rated at 12A, the highest current rating for a 60VDC MOSFET of that package size. The MOSFETs would have to be 16A rated then and that in turn requires the much larger TO220AB package size. The same up-scaling applies to the G540 motherboard and the connectors it uses.

Strangely enough, an estimate of the entire drive size can be derived from the cube of the 130% increase in trace width. This calculates to 2.2 times the volume of the present G540. Since weight and cost is approximately a linear function of volume, the price would approach an unpalatable $600 in singles quantities.

Experience has shown these estimates to be true within +/-25%.

The G540 design was an exercise in taking advantage of smaller component sizes that would give a 1/3 size performance (7A*80V / 3.5A*50V) of our bigger drives. Most of these advantages are lost if the scale is increased to 4.5A.

All this verifies the most basic law of the universe: No matter how hard you try, there is no way around the 'there is no free lunch' rule.:-)

Mariss

[aarggh]

What a great response Mariss! Thanks for the detailed explanation, very interesting indeed. I've been wondering for a while why with such a killer product you didn't have variants of it.

cheers,
Ian

[bsharp]

"it look like a small tiny ripple in my wake."

I agree with you; little boats and little men leave a small, tiny wake.:-)

Nice classy business like comment!

Narration:
(Notice how they avoid the difficult and correct way to respond to a comment and go straight to personal ridicule. A sure sine of moronic behavior, social acceptance issues and defiantly a sign of someone on a power trip.)

(lets see what happens when we play along)

Mariss,
From the eye of a bottom feeder so far below everything looks small!

[bsharp]

aarggh,

Good advice. I'll follow it.

About the G540. It's one of those "everything is connected to everything else" designs meaning if one thing is changed, it has repercussions in many places you wouldn't think of.

Example: The G250 drives used in the G540 have 500mW 0.056 Ohm current sense resistors. While the motors are running, the RMS current at 3.5A peak is 2.5A for a resistor dissipation of 343mW. Everything is good with the world as far as those resistors are concerned.

Should the motor stop at microstep 10 (sine 90 degrees), the dissipation at 3.5A would be a not so good 680mW except for the fact the drives go into a standby reduction current of 70% (2.5A again).

At 4.5A, the resistors would see an unsupportable 1,130mW dissipation at peak current or 570mW RMS or standby. Good practice would mean these would have to be much larger 1W rated resistors.

The circuit-board trace width is scaled to 3.5A. These traces would have to be 130% wider to accept 4.5A currents. The tyranny of scale applies to the power MOSFETs. The rule of thumb we use is the MOSTET current rating must be 5 times the RMS current passing through the MOSFET. The ones we use in the G250 drives are rated at 12A, the highest current rating for a 60VDC MOSFET of that package size. The MOSFETs would have to be 16A rated then and that in turn requires the much larger TO220AB package size. The same up-scaling applies to the G540 motherboard and the connectors it uses.

Strangely enough, an estimate of the entire drive size can be derived from the cube of the 130% increase in trace width. This calculates to 2.2 times the volume of the present G540. Since weight and cost is approximately a linear function of volume, the price would approach an unpalatable $600 in singles quantities.

Experience has shown these estimates to be true within +/-25%.

The G540 design was an exercise in taking advantage of smaller component sizes that would give a 1/3 size performance (7A*80V / 3.5A*50V) of our bigger drives. Most of these advantages are lost if the scale is increased to 4.5A.

All this verifies the most basic law of the universe: No matter how hard you try, there is no way around the 'there is no free lunch' rule.:-)

Mariss

So basically to put it in sorter words in order to run more amps things need to get bigger! Pure frigging electrical genius right there! If you guys think that's good try reading about ohm's law some time!