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IndustryArena Forum > CNC Electronics > Phase Converters > What to do with a 460v 3-Phase Motor?
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    24223
    The fact is that either way you are going to need a 1 phase to 3 phase convertor of some kind, my take would be to obtain a 220/240 volt motor or get the existing one rewired for 240v, if you are sure of someone who can do the job reliably.
    This would mean obtaining a VFD that would be capable of running a 7.5hp 3 phase motor on 1 phase, many manufacturers limit their single phase operation to 5hp, some such as WEG I believe offer 1 phase for this size.
    You show that you are in the US so the mains frequency is 60hz, a normal 4 pole induction motor cannot run exactly at synchronism or 1800rpm on 60hz due to something called slip frequency.
    It will normally run at 1740rpm or thereabouts, unless it is not a normal induction motor which would be very unusual.
    In any event, it is probably not going to be cheap.
    Induction motor rpm is the freq of the supply, 60hz, x 60 seconds for rpm, divided by the number of pole pairs, in your case, 2. minus the slip frequency, which is 4%~7%.
    A VFD would allow running exactly at 1800, or even double the input frequency up to 120Hz.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    269
    Get the single phase motor, modify the pulleys, and sell the 460 motor. A few things to look into: some 460v only machines have smaller gauge wiring and switching components (contactors, drum switches, control transformers) which are not rated for the amperage/voltage when going to 230v, and especially 230v single phase. If using a VFD, this is only for the main motor. Control circuits, etc. cannot be taken of the VFD.

    Jim

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    24223
    Quote Originally Posted by cheetahcnc View Post
    If using a VFD, this is only for the main motor. Control circuits, etc. cannot be taken of the VFD.

    Jim
    The OP states it is not CNC so I imagine there is not alot of control circuitry, nothing that cannot be taken care of with a 120v 1ph supply that is.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    0

    How a Single Phase motor is powered from a 3-Phase source

    Quote Originally Posted by Al_The_Man View Post
    Induction motor rpm is the freq of the supply, 60hz, x 60 seconds for rpm, divided by the number of pole pairs, in your case, 2. minus the slip frequency, which is 4%~7%.
    A VFD would allow running exactly at 1800, or even double the input frequency up to 120Hz.
    Al.
    Thanks Al, your notes will go in the notebook for future reference :wee:

    The dilemma remains up in the air. I will report what I find out about the single phase pump motor. Its identification plate clearly identifies it as an induction motor: The pump motor is rated at 60 Hz, 115 volt, 5.6 Amp; or 208/230 volt 2.8 Amp, Single Phase 1725 Rpm 1/4 Hp (seems that they accounted for the slip frequency you mentioned). There is some kind of box breaking off from the 460 volt three phase main input that I presume is designed to draw the single phase power down for the pump without imbalancing the 460 volts main 3 phase motor described previously.

    The three switch boxes I have not yet opened (since I don't know what I would be looking for) are the on/off switch for each of the motors (on the operator's side of the machine). And thirdly, more curiously is the larger (about 4" x 8" x 12") box on the back side that seems to break out the single phase power for the pump motor.

    With hourly rates for electricians being a factor in deciding what to do, we are leaning towards getting a phase converter plus a transformer that would hopefully provide the right kind of power that (presumably) can be easily connected to the only three wires that were clipped when this machine was taken out of the factory where it last ran. Call this plan "B" or "Joe's Plan" -scudzuki

    Here is an interesting configuration that boosts the voltage before the phase conversion (for a variation on plan "B") I have not seen any other proposals to do it this way:
    Adapters

    We are still waiting (worried) for a price on this. It appears that their US distributor prefers to put the VFD in front of an AC transformer anyway. I do not know if that has to do with the way we distribute power in the US. I like the diagram shown on the previous link.

    Back to our machine: It was running when it was sold from the shop floor, due to the entire factory being closed. The machine was purchased in "running condition". The main assumption is that the machine is OK as-is.

    These are other assumptions:

    1.) The single phase pump motor connections will not need any modifications if we use plan "B": a phase converter and transformer (or vice versa) to power the three phase input wires the same as they were when they were clipped at its previous home.

    2.) The pump motor switch box somehow drew single phase power from the original three phase source without imbalancing the 3 phase power that then went on to the main spindle motor. Whether it was 120 or 208/220 doesn't matter because all of the wiring is already in place if we bring 460v 3-phase power to the only open wiring coming into the machine (is there a way to verify this?)

    This is not the approach I said we were going to use in the original post. But, taking out the motor is no small chore. Then we still need to have it rewired correctly, put it back in, readjust the pulley belts, and still get a 240 volt vfd anyway.

    Without doing the math, it would seem that getting the right kind of transformer in place to get 460v 3 phase power without touching the machine wiring would be easier and cheaper.

    But, if it burns out the main motor, makes the electricity bill significantly higher, or causes some problem I have not considered, then would plan "A" still be better? (group)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    24223
    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs.B View Post
    I will report what I find out about the single phase pump motor. Its identification plate clearly identifies it as an induction motor: The pump motor is rated at 60 Hz, 115 volt, 5.6 Amp; or 208/230 volt 2.8 Amp, Single Phase 1725 Rpm 1/4 Hp . There is some kind of box breaking off from the 460 volt three phase main input that I presume is designed to draw the single phase power down for the pump without imbalancing the 460 volts main 3 phase motor described previously.
    If the machine was fed from 460 3ph then I imagine that this would be a transformer to drop down to 230 for the 1 ph motor, You may want to look at putting this on a separate 240v circuit from your service, this would offload from some of the 460v.
    I am not familiar with the adapters in your link but they appear that that may be a solution, but just for the spindle motor, not the whole machine, but if you wire the pump direct, it may not be a problem.
    i.e. VFD for spindle only.
    Al..
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

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