[5th-axis]

Hey all,
We have a 6030 with the Numatix retrofit. I love the speed of the control but we have issues with cutter compensation and I was wondering if any on here had any experience with this. When programmed with Cutter comp. and an arc on -arc off move it will sometimes skip the contour and only perform the arc on-arc off move. Other times it will add an arc and I have had it cut way too big. Mind you this is intermittent. It works sometimes,sometimes it doesn't. Its really frustrating because it will work on one part but not another. We are using Surfcam to program and the cut parameters can all be identical and it will still not consistently perform the the cutter compensation. I can perform a line on-arc off move but i get a dwell mark that is not acceptable on some features. Most times I have to re-draw the contour and re-program to make up the difference in my tool size. Sorry for the wall of text but I figured the more info I gave you gurus the better.

Thanks in advance for your help,
5th

[carbidecraters]

This really is a question for Numatix themselves but I am curious if it has anything to do with the feed rate. We are looking to otufit 2 of our 6030s to Numatix but I havent seen anything out of the norm until you posted this.

[David Ferguson]

Any chance your arc on/off parameters are not large enough for the cutter compensation required?

[5th-axis]

Thanks for the reply. It does not seem to be feed rate dependent. It does not matter if it is 10 IPM or 200. As far as the control goes I love it. Its smooth and FAST. It does everything as advertised. I would do the retrofit all over again. Its just this comp issue thats been nagging at me. I need to figure out if its just my machine or what. It does seem that I am alone with this issue. Our Surfcam post was modified by our vendor and has been solid. Its just a modified Fadal post. I have spoken with Numatix and they are currently working on it. Their customer service is excellant by the way. Im just poking around to see if I can get closer to a resolution on my end.
Thanks again

[5th-axis]

@David Ferguson,
I have experimented with different arc on-off parms to no avail. Line on-arc off moves are fine but I get a small dwell mark which is unacceptable on some parts.

[Scott_bob]

5th Axis,

In my experience with the Numeryx and Numatix I too saw this issue on our CNC. Long story short Gil who is the creator fixed this issue with a little help from us. We supplyied him the G-Code program and the exact line of code that started the problem. Gil worked on this and other issues we had and further improved the system. He did solve this problem on his latest release. This is only available from Numeryx. As far as I know this and other updates are not available from Numatix as they have an earlier version of Gils product. You can review some of these updates here:

NCPLUS 2000
Look under whats new...

One of my favorites was the addition of displaying the G-Code source during machining.
As a user you know that the program running your machine is not the G-Code file you work with. The program your machine is using is really a compiled binary file. This is one reason the CNC is so fast, the control is not waiting for interpolation of G-Code. This compiled binary file can run much faster than any other CNC that is interpolating g-code and processing motion, while matching position and velocity thru its internal feed back loop system. Sounds complicated but only because it is unique. But that is what sets this system apart, it's ability to process hugh amounts of data very fast. In fact your entire CNC program will be processed in less than 10 seconds even if it is a big program multi megs is size. All syntax is processed before cycle start occurs. All motion is processed. This method is how the Numeryx / Numatix can be so fast. Even symulating on screen graphics of hugh 3D toolpath is faster than any G-Code backplotter I have seen.

I am sorry about this long post. I do feed your pain though on the cutter comp subject. I am afraid that you may be out of luck on Gils updated version and upgrades. Unless of course Numatix has improved its relationship with Gils widow.

[carbidecraters]

Wouldnt one just need a copy of the updated hard drive?

[Scott_bob]

Just putting a Fanuc system from one machine that has been tuned by the machine builder on another machine would not work well either, maybe not at all... Same thing on a PC based CNC. Having a bunch of Fadals yourself, you would know this. Can you put the latest Fadal software on your older machines?

I ask you, what changed your mind on Numatix? Have you seen one running?

[5th-axis]

I just spoke with Numatix and they hope to have a solution by the end of the week. If indeed a solution is found I will post back and let you guys know. @Scott_Bob, I agree with you on the backplot, it is much faster than the one with Surfcam. It will compile a program that is over 500,000 lines long in a matter of a couple of seconds. My surfaces all look awesome since the upgrade.
Thanks for the comments guys,
5th

[carbidecraters]

Just putting a Fanuc system from one machine that has been tuned by the machine builder on another machine would not work well either, maybe not at all... Same thing on a PC based CNC. Having a bunch of Fadals yourself, you would know this. Can you put the latest Fadal software on your older machines?I ask you, what changed your mind on Numatix? Have you seen one running?

Why yes we have. We have gone from -3 to -5 with the latest software update from 06' on a DC Fadal. I have seen multiple Numatix machines run and really enjoy the speed however the arc thing is a major hangup. What good is a control upgrade if you cant get consistancy?

[Scott_bob]

Why yes we have. We have gone from -3 to -5 with the latest software update from 06' on a DC Fadal. I have seen multiple Numatix machines run and really enjoy the speed however the arc thing is a major hangup. What good is a control upgrade if you cant get consistancy?

Lack of consistancy of any of the Fadal controls is why a retrofit makes sense. Poor performance is another word for inconsistancy. Life in the machining buisness is so much better with the right tools. This retrofit solution is still a great idea for many shops. As I said before the cutter comp issue was solved on the Numeryx. As well as some other improvments in the internal algorithims for better accuracy and smooth motion.

Another feature of the Numeryx, I would not want to be without is the Rapid Overide switching. Like many other controls the 100%, 75%, 50%, 25% overide of the Rapid traverse rate. On the Numatix you have to use the Feed overide to control both feed and rapid. Not a big deal unless you are proofing a job with relatively low feed rates in hard material and not using single block. At those low feed rates you are going to be at 100% on the overide, then when a rapid move is next you cannot react quick enough to get the override low enough to keep your shorts clean. And on the Numatix you don't have the G-Code displayed to look at what's coming up in the code, so you are blind and going to crap your pants. Anybody know what I mean?

[carbidecraters]

Your absolutely right! Machining blind is scary do they have an update to show G-code?

[carbidecraters]

1. When programmed with Cutter comp. and an arc on -arc off move it will sometimes skip the contour and only perform the arc on-arc off move.
2. On the Numatix you have to use the Feed overide to control both feed and rapid.
3. Numatix does not display code.

Geez doesnt sound like a good sound upgrade for anyone based on these faults it sounds more like a disaster waiting to happen. If these problems were addressed then maybe we would take another look but based on these three things why would I want this control other than if we were only ever doing long contour programs for hours. We already test our colision in Mastercam but...

[Scott_bob]

Question for Numatix users:

Anyone ask if they have the upgrade tested from version 4.2 to version 6.11?

NCPLUS 2000

Afterall these updates were done by the creator (Numeryx) of their software...