[SBC Cycle]

3 Fadals - 1996 (new), 1997 (new), 2008 (reman).

26 Total years of service.

Millions of dollars made (from these machines alone).

$260,000 invested, uncluding all repairs (and paid off).

If only these machines had more than 1 operator\programmer but I'm a one man show in the CNC department with 5 machines to run.

Oh, and 1000's of very happy customers who get precision work. I just don't understand what the debate is about.

So they can't ask me for a corner radius and program it automatically, I use a $12.99 scientific calculator and 9th grade math instead. So I have to actually use a Machinists Handbook (oh the horror!) instead of the control or CAM system figuring it for me. So I have to use a precision manual tool setter instead of a built in (less accurate) tool presetter. So the tool changer takes 7 seconds intead of 2.2, I program efficiently saving 30 seconds per tool per cycle.

I could go on but I'm pretty sure you know where I'm going with this. If you couldn't make your money back in 2 years with the machine running 2.5 days a week, really, you're not trying very hard.

[SORCHEROR]

its all about personal opion and experiences,i ran a 1986 fadal for years and hated the control and had some issues with 3d contouring,but that was a 1986,havent run anything else,ive heard people hating haas,since i started my own shop 5 years ago my haas has new haas has been working flawlessly,knock on wood,its all about how you work and take care of your equipment,personally im sticking with haas for two simple reasons,price and the service and fast and local,which means you save money and time
look at the partner machines,i ran a new one in the late 90,s and thought it was garbage,but ive heard now they are well built and work rather well,so what im getting at is you cant go by just one bad experience alone.good luck with what ever machine you have

[skullworks]

Every time I find a good deal on a near local FADAL its sold before I can consolidate my cash...

[carbidecraters]

Any Fadal you dont want PM me !!

[JOHN PARSONS]

Everyone has their opinion, I have been in buisness for 29 years and before that worked on many different kinds of machines. The Fadels are not junk as a matter of fact they are some of the most reliable machine I have ever worked on, I have 3 of them in my shop. It is like any other piece of equipment if you don't take care of it you will have problems. If you don't give it a clean dry supply of air you will have problems. That feature John talked about has zero to do with the quality of the machine and it can be turned off if you do not like it. How can a feature that accounts for backlash on a worn machine possibly be a bad thing? Not only that the back lash can be programmed out of the machine it is part of a regular maintenance routine that we check on a regular basis.
Maybe some of you guys had older machines that were trashed by the people that ran them or you were just very un lucky because that is certainly not the rule it is the exception.Not only do I have them but several of my customers do as well and I can tell you for a fact when compared to something like the Hardinge machine they have Fadel blows them away on all fronts. As far as the accuracy goes even the most accurate machine will make junk if it is being run or programmed by someone that does not know what they are doing. These machine are plenty accurate I make my living with them and have been for as long as 10 years on one of them. Just like anything else you need to get the machine that suits your work the Fadel's are not made to run a 6 inch facemill 1/2 deep through 4140 steel so if you bought it for that then you did not do your homework very well.
I will agree that in the past the service had issues but the new company that took it over in my area is on the ball never had to wait more than a day for them to get out here. Mazak, Hass are in the same class as the Fadel and I can name half a dozen people that claim they are junk too so it comes down to the right machine for the job, the proper maintenance, the right operator/programmer. As with any machine of course there is the occasional lemon out there perhaps you were just unlucky enough to get one of those. I find it very hard to believe that of the 3 machine I have of varying ages from 10 years to 5 years old that I got the only 3 good ones, if I was that lucky I would be a professional lottery winner to earn my living and trust me I would not live very long on what I have won in the lottery.

You can't spell Fadal? and you own 3 of them? Sounds fishy to me.
The letters F, A, D, A, L, are the initials of the last names of the guys that started the company, the company was sold for 180 million.

[joesz]

Because I spelled a word wrong I am lying? something is wrong with you. I know all about the story behind the company that has nothing to do with anything we are talking about here so what is your point.
You are entitled to your opinion of course but keep your commentary to yourself it has no place here. Just by the comments you made it is very clear you do not have much knowledge of those machines at all. Trust me I have far more experience than you do in this field so if you want to continue to post here maybe you should choose your words better.

[carbidecraters]

Sorry to nitpick but this statement made it obvious how many different Fadals or Fadels you have worked on. I know many business owners that call these Fadels and Mazaks, mazoles.

I have worked on Fadals for 25 years, they are pieces of junk.
I did work on one that had linear scales (glass scales) it was very accurate.

[joesz]

Johnny if you insist on sending me e-mail that I can not reply to then you must have something to hide. Please either get back on the subject or stop posting. Sending me pictures of you holding a gun does not impress me nor does your search on the internet to find out information about me, any idiot can do that.
You have a problem it is clear it is mot my job to help you with it you need the help of a doctor. So go ahead keep e-mailing me pictures of you shooting a gun maybe I will see something cool

[scadvice]

Wow…I haven’t looked at this thread for time and I almost missing all the fun! I like all the comments accept JOHN’s. Sorry John, but it does sound like you’re having a bad day and are looking to pick a fight. May I suggest one of the Martial Arts forums? I’m sure you could fine someone over there to fight with.(chair)
Steve :stickpoke

[joesz]

I prefer to discuss the topic at hand not do battle with someone that is disturbed enough to take a picture of himself holding a gun then setting up an e-mail account on yahoo using my name and sending it to me. Let's try to ignore him he will get bored and go away

[SBC Cycle]

You can't spell Fadal? and you own 3 of them? Sounds fishy to me.
The letters F, A, D, A, L, are the initials of the last names of the guys that started the company, the company was sold for 180 million.

It never fails that the spelling/grammer Nazi screws up his own spelling or grammer when making a smartass remark:

You own 3 Fadals's and can't spell Fadal?

And BTW jackass, F.A.D.A.L is for the founder and his three sons. Their FIRST names.

Francis, Adrian, Dave And Larry

[Bwana Don]

Not a bad machine. Life is all about trade-offs and comprimises. A decent solid machine that will do a good job on short to medium runs. Easy to program and run, takes a bit to get used to. After you get used to it though, let's just say, it will grow on you. All umbrella type tool changers suck (IMHO) so you need to upgrade to a side mount or just bite the bullet. The chip to chip with these type of machines is long. Fadal is no worse on this than other similar brands.

Thru spindle coolant is a nightmare. We upgraded to the Lightning Cool system and it works very well now.

Our Kitamura 3XI with pallet changer does 2x as much work as our 3016HT. It also cost 3x as much but uses half the labor. It is also 2x as expensive to repair. Good for high production runs, but fixtures and proto-types no big advantage over the Fadal.

If you are used to brand x you'll like brand x. Some people are adaptive and can work on brand X,Y, or Z and some will complain that brand Y does not run like brand X.

I picked out our Fadal 3016Ht in 1998. It has done a lot of work for us, and not been too bad of a machine. Other than the Thru coolant issues it has not been bad on repairs. No spindle repair (10K) no ball screws, nothing major except the mother board.

Overall a good value. I'm not sorry I bought it. For the record, my color choice would have been "Plum Crazy" or maybe "Hugger Orange".

Don

[ThatguyDave]

I'll throw in my two cents. I got a 96 Fadal 4020 and a 97 Daewoo Puma 8S lathe as my first two cncs ever. For all the knocking Fadals you hear I'm certainly more than pleased with it. It did need much more attention than the Daewoo but nothing insurmountable. A few new gibs and straps to replace delaminated ones, new drawbar washers, new angular contact bearings on the x axis, ect but now its working well. Mind you this was a 13yr old machine that wasn't at all well maintained. Still it works well, makes parts, is reasonably accurate, and I feel very comfortable with the control, architecture, ect. The Daewoo, has much better sealing of the way surfaces, higher end ball screw couplers, smaller ball screws though, a built in toolsetter, and is generally assembled more in line with traditional cnc machines. That said I had absolute nightmares with a Mitsu control which needed to be essentually reformated to get the canned cycle back onto it. That said I don't see how it a worlds better machine than the Fadal like the Daewoo dealer was insisting.

Another thing worth noting is that Fadal basically made only minimal changes to their machines so if you're looking at used machines, don't forget to compare the Fadal with another make of the same vintage. When the new Haas arrives with a fancy tool changer, modern control ect, it certainly makes the old Fadal seem dated. That said, that the new Haas as all these trick features doesn't make an older Haas with an umbrella changer and an antiquated control any better.

Its a shame Fadal is no longer producing machines but in this market I can't blame them for ceasing production. It is annoying that the company seems to have been the victim of too much corporate meddling and too little genuine product development and engineering. The problems people apparently are having with recent models is pathetic. However that the original designs for the 2016, 3016, 4020 basically survived until recently speaks volume for the original design.

I sure love mine.

[jerseyTom]

There's nothing inherently "wrong" with Fadals, in my opinion. Like any piece of machinery, or even if you think of it like buying a car, it's all about application. Everything has its place. Is it the Ferrari of machining centers? No. But not everyone needs a Ferrari to get to go get the groceries or get to work (though it sure would be cool!)

Are the carousel tool changers pretty slow? Sure. But not every job needs 20 tools changing every minute.

Personally I particularly like the 88HS controller. Has some great functionality, and it's super easy to use.

I can't comment much on direct factory support.. but our local Fadal machine tool distributor was great in showing up on the same day to fix any issues we had (which were few and minor) and cutting down time.

Granted, I've only done 4 or so years of experience on them, but I've made plenty of parts for racecars, university research instrumentation, and NASA flight experiments on a Fadal. With good programming, scheduling, and setup we never had an issue with throughput or machine accuracy, and any scrap was always from user error.

[Neal]

JerseyTom--
Concerning the Fadal support, MAG Maintinance Techonolgies fully supports the Fadal line of machines. Our Fadal distributors each have their own service departments for field repairs and are backed up the The Mag Chatsworth Service Center.
If you have a Fadal you still have parts, service, applications, and programming support.
Neal

[Hennessy]

In my opinion Fadals are no better or worse than any other machine. I think that as machinist's it is our responsibility to know the strengths and weaknesses of our machines and run them accordingly. We have 4 Fadals in our shop, 2 4020's, 1 VMC15 XT and 1 VMC40. The only problems we have had with any of them were due to lack of PM's on the 4020's. My coworker lets things go a lot longer than I do but that's another story. As far as the customer service goes i have never had any problems. The local Fadal Maintenance guys come out the same day in most cases. We have had to have a few parts replaced in the last 6 months but that was due to an act of god ( the building got hit by lightning). and lets not forget neal he is allwase super helpful.

Hennessy

[egw]

Yes, Neal is an Asset to all of us. Impressive.

First Fadal is a VMC 20 aquired in 94, in 15 years we put a spindle in it, and a set of bevel washers and an axis board. That I consider Amazing.

Next a 3020 Preformance Seimens 840. some initial trouble covered perfectly under warrenty, Since a side tool changer motor, Fadal does not make it anyway.

Add a 4 axis 3016, 2002 Stole it for 27k Linear machine, NOT the same on steel as the box machines. works great, many parts Kemosave.

add a 4020 2006 off ebay for 52k, arm tool changer 10k spindle cool power. Lots of problems. A retro 104D machine with legacy control spent 20k on it but made chips all along.

Next a 4020 15k cool power 2003 again stole it for 32k a wile back. machine has been Perfect.

Wile I have you good peeps.

What is the thought on a 2008 4020 with the Imfimatic control?
would like to hear experience on this set up. machine is a FX model

thasnk also for the insite that I have Gleaned from this sight, it is very helpful.

geo


www.egwguns.com

[scadvice]

Yes, Neal is an Asset to all of us. Impressive.

First Fadal ....
thasnk also for the insite that I have Gleaned from this sight, it is very helpful.

geo


www.egwguns.com

Yes I agree. Neal is a gold mine of information to us. Thanks Neal, and I hope Fadal Mag compensates you well for the service and goodwill you provide for them and us.:wave:
I also have to comment on the Fadal support that is commercially out there. It is amazing when you think about it. How many other machines have the support base and options that the Fadal owners do? Look around and tell me if I’m wrong.
Steve

[egw]

Yes,
We use Mid Atlantic, they have been Great.
something goes down, more often than not the next day a teck is on our floor.
Also from Ky. they send the parts ahead and were running by Noon.

Only ONE time were we not able to get a part from Ky or CA. the next day.
The Arm Tool changer motor went down. The aftermarket KMac had it in stock and we installed it the next day. Nice to be covered having parts available from Fadal and after market.

geo

[iess525]

Yes,
We use Mid Atlantic, they have been Great.
something goes down, more often than not the next day a teck is on our floor.
Also from Ky. they send the parts ahead and were running by Noon.

Only ONE time were we not able to get a part from Ky or CA. the next day.
The Arm Tool changer motor went down. The aftermarket KMac had it in stock and we installed it the next day. Nice to be covered having parts available from Fadal and after market.

geo

We supply parts to KMAC and many other distributors. If you ever need anything, shoot me an email with your info and I'd be happy to help you over the phone.