[norvil1]

Don't forget the good old luck factor either. Sometimes you just need to be in the right place at the right time to become a genius. Bill Gates is a great example of that- we all know him as the nerdy shy guy who is the world's richest man. Most people think of him as the guy who invented software. Actually he was just one of a million smart young guys who were involved in the computer revolution of the 70's. He and a lot of others understood that the computers themselves were just boxes stuffed full of off the shelf components. The real key to the computer was the operating system. Through some good fortune, he happened to get an introduction to IBM who was struggling with their PC against Apple, who had a superior software. Gates managed to get a contract to supply big blue with a software package- great- except he did not actually have a workable system. However, there was a fellow in Seattle that had a working system with all the right basics. Gates goes to this guy and buys the entire design for some ridiculous amount- about 20,000.00. With a few refinements it is re-branded as MSDOS and in a few years Gates is hailed as a genius and is worth billions. The poor inventor guy probably bought himself a new car and spent the rest of his life in a sea of regret. I'll bet Gates never thought of tossing this guy a few million later on either. Who knows. maybe one day the Sultan of Brunei will decide to train all male subjects under 21 as CNC machinists and will order 10,000 Tormach machines- naturally fully equipped with ATC's. The Taiwanese guys will make piles of money using the design they got from Scott for nothing and he will be out looking for me with vengeance on his mind.

actually sharpshooter/instructor,and 300 sniper spend most of there time over on the shoptask forums preaching about the virtues of shoptask. these guys dont even own a tormach.

[jdclark]

Actuially...I think his smart ass remarks make him look like a self-righteous pompous dip **** !!!

Its especially frustrating because he outlined the flaws in this project and no one listened.

[kenrik]

Its especially frustrating because he outlined the flaws in this project and no one listened.

I was refering to Sharpshooter90 in my quote/reply

[zephyr9900]

Its especially frustrating because he outlined the flaws in this project and no one listened.

I saw no flaws in the project as defined and first implemented--only in people's expectations of it which feature-bloated and killed it (at least for the Tormach users).

Scott should have stuck to his guns and produced his original design which would have worked for the 90% of us who do not take the "show-off" cuts that Tormach has posted in their videos. Nothing against Tormach--more power to them to demonstrate the limits of the performance envelope--but an accessory designed to satisfy 90% of the users and on the market would be better than an accessory that satisfies the last 10% of the users and becomes unmarketable to the other 90% because of price (and from comments it sounds like the last 10% would not pay for what they specified anyway...)

Randy

[ihavenofish]

I saw no flaws in the project as defined and first implemented--only in people's expectations of it which feature-bloated and killed it (at least for the Tormach users).

Scott should have stuck to his guns and produced his original design which would have worked for the 90% of us who do not take the "show-off" cuts that Tormach has posted in their videos. Nothing against Tormach--more power to them to demonstrate the limits of the performance envelope--but an accessory designed to satisfy 90% of the users and on the market would be better than an accessory that satisfies the last 10% of the users and becomes unmarketable to the other 90% because of price (and from comments it sounds like the last 10% would not pay for what they specified anyway...)

Randy

the whole thing was silly. he made a tool changer. it worked. period. lots of people would be happy with it, and im sure plenty would still buy it.

if the drawbar could use more tension, you add a bigger spring, or switch to an impact wrench. i have no idea why this easily remedied drawbar issue affect selling a good tool changer for the machine.

[mactec54]

Hi zephyr9900

You refer to the Tormach video were they were cutting through the 1" bar that was quite easy to do & keep the tool in the collet if you tryed that with a regular 4 flute EndMill you would be in trouble as it would pull the cutter out of the collet no matter what you had trying to hold it

They were using a roughing cutter which can reduce the cutting force by up to 2/3 that of a regular EndMill so that was the trick??? was Scott using a rougher??? for testing???

A lot of the problem with the toolchanger build was Scott had to have some one make the parts for him so the cost would have been high

Scott had the software working great he even could should of been selling the software module to all the Mach people that wanted it to help with the costs & even plans that could of helped with his costs also

[R.DesJardin]

Scott had the software working great he even could should of been selling the software module to all the Mach people that wanted it to help with the costs & even plans that could of helped with his costs also

I agree, I do not have the time to do all the required software programming. Building hard parts is more my thing.
But this is all crying over spilled milk. There is nothing out there right now so all we can do is "what if" everything.

[philbur]

A normal part of any design process is that a number of your peers try to pick holes in your design. The design, if it survives, is much more robust after the process than before.

It is best performed at an early stage and repeated at appropriate points during the development, not after the first prototype is up and running. You just have to filter the crap from the valid input.

Personally I would much rather have a bunch of guys give my design a hard time than I would a bunch of guys slapping me on the back say how great it is.

Just something to think about
Phil

[ihavenofish]

Personally I would much rather have a bunch of guys give my design a hard time than I would a bunch of guys slapping me on the back say how great it is.

Just something to think about
Phil

yup, thats constructive criticism. not alot of it in the other thread though. mostly belittling the designer for trying as far as i could tell. the 2 things have vastly different results.

not that poppabear is completely blameless either, the only one that could ultimately let it dies was him.

[PoppaBear10]

Ok, I tell you what, I will sell the tool changer that you saw as a Set of Plans (paper plans). With a BOM, I will include the Screenset, m6, XML, and ADC DL06 programming, on a CD to go with it. You can then build it your self, and fix all the things that you think should be this way or that way.

$200.00 per set of Plans. NO Warrenty, NO support, NO liability.
Part of the condition of the IP will be this as well, if you use my plans or ATC based on my stuff, then send me 200 per ATC you sell.

If you want support for the above that will cost EXTRA 75/hour.

So let me know if your interested in this, and I will get to work. I will have Ken do the Mechanical Plans and I will do the Electrical/Programming part.

so let me know how that works for ya.

BTW: If your not interested in that, or want to "Put it down as stupid" or what ever, dont bother. I have seen more than enough negativity all ready.

Scott

[norvil1]

when its time to put up or shut up, its probably going to get real quite. good luck to you.

[PoppaBear10]

Yeap, you can hear the Crikets chirping already in the parking lot.

scott

[jdclark]

when its time to put up or shut up, its probably going to get real quite. good luck to you.

You got that exactly right. I read through the original thread about this project and at first everyone was telling him what a great idea it was etc. Then when he announced he was accepting 50% deposits, everyone ran for cover. On top of that a bunch of other guys were re-designing the thing and telling him how to build it. I think that was the straw that broke his back.

[levelzero]

I might be interested in buying a set of plans, it'll be easier then doing everything from scratch. I would like to know the total cost to build your design before hand though.

[jdclark]

R.DesJardin,

Have to disagree with Sharpshooter, the ATC I designed did work for 3/8" DOC, but people here wanted 1" DOC like the videos, to do that I had to redesign the head. This added another 1000 to the price tag. To produce, Warrenty, service, market etc. the device was getting into a price range that was unsutainable for the Tormach. I sold the ATC and IP to a Tiwanese company, for them to bring to market on a different type of machine, with some mechanical/electrical and programming mods of course.

scott

According to this , the design has been sold to another company, so its unlikely that plans would be available.

[PoppaBear10]

That is true, They just bought a Changer and the right to produce them, as many as they wanted. I still retain the Copy Rights to the ATC.

If I want to sell plans, I can, if I want to make more of them I can, all part of the understanding of the deal up front. I dont think they considered me a potential Competition risk since I cant get materials, parts or labor as cheap as they can.

So if you want to do it your self, you can.

Total cost, will depend on what YOU can find parts/material cost for. Some people are good at Ebay and deals.

for example: DL06 from Automation direct is around 200 bucks, if you dont have the programing software add another 400 or so.
Stepper/drives varies
Air controls, pistons, etc. varies
misc. parts, etc. varies

scott

[tlyee63]

I've been watching this for awhile now, I would love to get a haas mini mill, but I dont have the space for one, not even close, I am trying to fund a tormach since it fits my budget and space aval,I would love a ATC setup, and pretty sure if this was already aval would prob have the tormach already,what was the original asking price for your ATC scott?
thanks

[howecnc]

Poppabear10,
Do you have an estimated cost of the materials to build your toolchanger?

I might be interested in building one myself.

Thanks,

Howecnc

[PoppaBear10]

tlyee63:
3k

howecnc:
probably around 2k plus or minus depending on what and where you purchase.

scott

[pete from TN]

There sure are a lot of inquiries about how to get one or build one on here....hmmmm peace