[Crevice Reamer]

Here is the schematic for the SX3 controller and daughter board--Thanks Alex:

http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57823.#2

I have not yet figured out how to control it with Mach3. But I HAVE discovered that the microprosessor is relatively cheap--$3.81 each. For less than $50 you can get several of these plus a developement board, software and a parallel port programmer that works from a PC.

If it is just a matter of changing firmware, this equipment can apparently both read the existing firmware, reprogram it, and write it anew into a new processor. (Not that I have the slightest idea how to DO that yet.)

http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/pro...products_id=29

This is beginning to look more DOable.

CR.

[cjdavis618]

That's a good find CR.

I found out my problem with the spindle appears to be the button interface in the front. I plugged my board back up last night and tried it one more time after I cleaned all the crud from the LCD panel. I actually got it to run again for a few minutes. Once I hit stop, the thing started beeping again. It appeared that some oil got on the plugs and shorted them out from the spindle housing. I'm still looking for the way the oil got all the way down the wires and plugs. My guess is the top spindle pulley.

After messing around with it again, for some reason, pressing reverse after a sequence of key presses will shut off the beeper. I'm certain that the chips on that front board are bad (at least one of them)

There are 2 chips and from what I can make out, These are the part numbers that will replace those. It shouldn't need any programming for these 2 chips. But overall, I'm sure the ones on the daughtercard will need to be.

(Bold text is what is printed on the chips. The rest is the cross that came up)

595-SN74HC595DT

595-SN74ALS138ADG4


I am looking at some o-scopes and some other tools I need before I can dig into this and some other minor projects.

I am also ordering these chips to see if I can fix the existing buttons. ($2.50 for parts if better than $99 for board and shipping from Grizzly)

[John S.]

The SX3 has multiple boards to run the motor.
You have the main controller board which then goes to the front board and then to the digital display.

The KX3 CNC also uses the same controller board and motor but this has a small daughter board called an AP2 board that takes in 0 10 volt analogue to control the motor




You need to contact Seig to see if they will sell you a board.

John S.

[Teyber12]

neither does crevice reamer, but once someone else figures it out he'll be sure to try and impress newbies with how HE did it.

All i see CR do is go hand over heel to help people. Do you think he invented cnc? because he didn't he doesn't have the right to help people? he often refers to other ideas directly to people who need help and wouldn't be able to find them.

In the meantime, GTFO and wipe your feet on the way in next time

[cjdavis618]

Thanks alot for the info John S.

Does that board control the speed well with the motor? I know the Syil systems have a problem with getting the speed set and tends to vary badly. I've heard it can take minutes to get the right speed set for the op.

[John S.]

Yes it's virtually instantaneous, just requiring enough time for the motor to spool up or decerate.
Forgot to mention in the earlier post that this board replaced the front panel board and the display so you only have two boards.
Speed can be read off the Mach screen, it also controls forward and reverse but you loose the tapping fixture.

John S.

[cjdavis618]

John, that is the best news I have heard all day. I can live with the time that the motor takes to spin up. The X3 Syil way was nuts though. It would overshoot the speed, then slow down, then miss and have to speed up. Like another member said on this board, it was like a drunk person controlling it.

I can do without the tapping feature, but I believe that with both this card, a c3 index pulse card, it could still be used for tapping.


This proves the functionality exists at least for those of use with the SX3s.

Oddly, last night, I was out testing my mill and plugged my card in for the front panel. During testing with my fluke dmm, I noticed that when I touched one of the leads with my meter, the tone changed of the constant beep. After a bit more testing of the leads, I came across another lead that resets the board when measured to the one that changes pitch. So at this point, I have full control of my mill again. It is very strange.

I doubt it will stay long, but it seems like one of the chips had a stuck register. Somehow, by the minute resistance of my fluke 289, it reset the board and it all works again. It will most likley die though right in the middle of my next op.

[extrapilot]

Putting a translator between the main board and the front panel is probably not the right way to go. You retain the RPM hunting issue which is part of the legacy microcontroller logic. Also, there are a bunch of timing-related limitations (switches are multiplexed) that would impact some functionality. And, you would not have RPM feedback to Mach (i.e. it would be open loop control), so you would need to put an encoder on the spindle (or something similar) and send that back- more work, more cost.

In my opinion, a better route is to build a plug-in replacement board for the microcontroller. With that, you are leveraging the more expensive power/drive section, but you get all the remote spindle control functionality, plus closed-loop processing for speed control, and lots of other interesting things.

There is a bit of a logic problem though, and that is- precedence of remote control vs. front panel control. It may require a lot more thinking on how to allow the panel to act as a pendant to send data back to Mach. Maybe it would be easy- I don’t know the Mach pendant interface.

The problem for me is liability. I can hear the legal arguments now: 'How could I have known the spindle could start remotely via my Spindle Start GCode that I manually entered on a script that I manually initiated??'

[cjdavis618]

\
The problem for me is liability. I can hear the legal arguments now: 'How could I have known the spindle could start remotely via my Spindle Start GCode that I manually entered on a script that I manually initiated??'

I guess I don't follow you on that. I don't know of many VMCs that do not use Gcode to start the motor and control speed.

[extrapilot]

The point is, if the base functionality of an SX3 is changed such that a remote-start of the spindle is possible, and an injury results, people tend to look to blame someone for their own negligence. I was hoping to illustrate the stupidity of the type of claim that could result; perhaps it was too stupid even for US courts

Presumably, there is some type of approach that can work- i.e. 'this is for unpowered display purposes only'.

How many SX3 people would even want this type of retrofit?

[cjdavis618]

I must really be missing something here I guess.


There is nothing different in controlling a spindle and getting cut with it as there is with controlling a CNC'ed axis and getting wedged somehow and getting hurt. I mean come on, I have my C11g board controlling my flood cooling also. I'm not going to sue Arturo if my coolant floods the floor.

In fact, I know a few people that think. "Why would you put motors on a drill press looking thing." (That was a question from a neighbor). The answer, because I want to, I can and I did.


I can't venture to guess how many would want the mod. I do know that just about 30-50% of the members of this board that have done a homebrew CNC job have put controls on thier spindle motors for this purpose. Send an Email to Arturo at CNC4PC and ask how many C6 boards he has sold. I would guess it is alot.


See, I have this problem. When someone tells me I can't do something. I try even harder to figure out a way. As it is right now, there appears to be no way with this particular model to do this without a retrofit of some sort. It makes no difference to me if the mill keeps the front panel controls or not. So with that in mind, I am looking for other solutions.

I'm not planning on making a product to sell by doing this. Just like everyother build here. It is meant to find a way to do something useful.

[extrapilot]

Well, in a perfect world, people would be responsible for their own decisions...

I dont think it is feasible to do this via software (i.e. plugin for Mach that emulates the front panel)- there are unknowns as to which switch is being monitored by the MCU during the multiplex cycle.

So, it seems that the two practical approaches are:
1. Gut the SX3 motor control boards, and replace with a 3rd party device that has a speed/direction input.
2. Build a plug-in replacement for the SX3 MCU, which has native inputs for analog or digital speed control, and perhaps a feedback channel to Mach (i.e. emulate an encoder, or however it would best be implemented).

As for option 1, someone here posted a solution he implemented, based on a BD30A controller from Advanced Motion. I believe these are fairly inexpensive- $200ish? No idea if they work, or how well, etc- but the post suggested it was a good solve for his needs.

Option 2 is not a problem to design/code, and it would be less expensive. Plus, there would be opportunity to add some smarts to the loop (i.e. use an MCU with a DSP onboard, perhaps able to detect chatter- who knows- interesting to think about though).

[John S.]

So, it seems that the two practical approaches are:
1. Gut the SX3 motor control boards, and replace with a 3rd party device that has a speed/direction input.
2. Build a plug-in replacement for the SX3 MCU, which has native inputs for analog or digital speed control, and perhaps a feedback channel to Mach (i.e. emulate an encoder, or however it would best be implemented).

Option 0A is to buy the factory designed board I posted that's made for the job, proven, known to work and saves reinventing the wheel.

Or is that too easy ?

John s.

[Crevice Reamer]

There is a bit of a logic problem though, and that is- precedence of remote control vs. front panel control. It may require a lot more thinking on how to allow the panel to act as a pendant to send data back to Mach. Maybe it would be easy- I don’t know the Mach pendant interface.?'

Apparently that is just a matter of adding a spindle interuptor for the C3 board:

http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread...5&page=59.#707

CR.

[Crevice Reamer]

Option 0A is to buy the factory designed board I posted that's made for the job, proven, known to work and saves reinventing the wheel.

Or is that too easy ?

John s.

I inquired about buying one of these from Novakon. They had no clue what I was asking for. How can we buy one direct from Sieg?

CR.

[John S.]

Well that's good back up service if they can't identify one of two boards.

Contact Sieg and ask for the AP2 board for a KX3 mill.

John S.

[Journey_Man]

Here is The Link: http://www.siegind.com/

[Crevice Reamer]

To: [email protected]

Hi! I would very much like to buy an AP2 board for a KX3 Milling Machine. Please advise how I can do this.

Thanks!

CreviceReamer

Email Sent!

CR.

[extrapilot]

Option 0A is to buy the factory designed board I posted that's made for the job, proven, known to work and saves reinventing the wheel.

Or is that too easy ?

John s.

Option 0A is to buy the factory designed board I posted that's made for the job, proven, known to work and saves reinventing the wheel.

Or is that too easy ?

John s.

It may be too easy. When I spoke with them earlier, the tech rep told me the spindle controller board was not available for retrofit due to a compatibility problem. Maybe this is just marketing-upsale-speak.

If it is now available, and is backwards-compatible, it remains an open-loop solution. The literature does not say if the board can reverse the spindle. Do you happen to know? RPM hunting would remain, and it is a problem for some.

Sidenote, the KX3 docs say it can do 100-5000 rpm. If this is the same mainboard as the SX3, and if the motor is similar/same, a new uC or a 3rd party controller may give us access to that increased RPM range. That would sure help with these smaller cutters.

Cheers-
R

[Crevice Reamer]

Email Sent!

CR.

Got the reply:

Dear Crevice,

Sorry for our late reply.

Would you please where and when you buy the KX3 machine and the exact model. ( KX3-SIEG,KX3-SERVO OR KX3-MACH)
And to buy the spare parts, we need the exact parts number according to our parts list.

Best regards,

Willie

NOT so easy!

CR.