[Rekd]

Wipe up the drool; you didn't read right.

13 to 18 kwh, that is kilowatt hours, with a peak output of 2500 watts

Correct.

The kilowatt hour, also written kilowatt-hour, (symbol kW·h, kW h or kWh) is a unit of energy. It is most commonly used to express amounts of energy delivered by electric utilities, and it appears on electric meters and bills in some countries.

The kilowatt hour is a measure of work, the watt is a measure of power. The amount of wattage times the amount of time is the amount of work done.

It is not used in the International System of Units (SI). The SI unit of energy is the joule (J), equal to one watt second. The kilowatt hour is commonly used, though, especially for measuring electric energy.

One watt hour is equivalent to 3,600 joules (1 J/s × 3600 s), thus a kilowatt hour is 3,600,000 joules or 3.6 megajoules, and a kilowatt refers to the specific rate at which the amount of joules is used in a second (also known as power). As such, a kilowatt equals the production or usage of 1,000 joules of energy per second (that is, a definitive rate), and a kilowatt hour is the specific amount of energy produced, transmitted, distributed, or consumed in a 3,600-second time period, which is 3,600,000 joules as mentioned above.

So the ability to generate 18 Kwh a day does not equal 18 Kw of power a day.

Confusion of watts and watt-hours

Power and energy are frequently confused in the general media. A watt is one 1 joule of energy per second. So watts multiplied by a period of time equals energy. For example, if a 100 watt light bulb is turned on for one hour, then an amount of energy is used corresponding to 100 watts of power being generated for a time period of one hour, i.e. 100 watts times one hour, i.e. 0.1 kilowatt-hour.

Since a joule as a quantity of energy does not have a readily imagined size to the layperson, the non-SI unit watt-hour, often in its multiples such the kilowatt-hour or higher prefixes, is frequently used as a unit of energy, especially by energy-supply companies (electricity and natural gas suppliers), which often quote charges by the kilowatt-hour. A kilowatt-hour is the amount of energy equivalent to a power of 1 kilowatt running for 1 hour:

(1 kW·h)(1000 W/kW)(3600 s/h) = 3,600,000 W·s = 3,600,000 J = 3.6 MJ.

[Mariss Freimanis]

To add to what Rekd said: 18kwh is 24 Horsepower for 1 hour, 240HP for 6 minutes, 2.4HP for 10 hours, etc. Use it any way you like. When it's gone, come back tomorrow for more.

Mariss

[Geof]

18kwh is about half the energy contained in one gallon of gasoline, or about as much food energy as a person would consume in a week.

[Mariss Freimanis]

Geof,

100W is the number I have always used to calculate the "power dissipation" of a human being. That meshes nicely with your calculation (100 Watts * 24 hrs * 7 days).

Mariss

[DR-Motion]

18kwh is about half the energy contained in one gallon of gasoline, or about as much food energy as a person would consume in a week.

That would be a Canadian gallon or 4.5 liters compared to the American gallon of only 3.6 liters ,only 14.4 kwh ... we Canadians have bigger gallons, stronger beer and better hockey teams AND ... appreciate glowball warming more than anyone else

[Geof]

Geof,

100W is the number I have always used to calculate the "power dissipation" of a human being. That meshes nicely with your calculation (100 Watts * 24 hrs * 7 days).

Mariss

I think in airconditioning they use 150, my calculation was for a modest diet.

[Geof]

...... we Canadians have bigger gallons, stronger beer and better hockey teams ...

I will leave hockey alone, agree with the gallon, but question the beer claim. I had a locally brewed concoction in the Parliament Bar of the Menger Hotel in San Antonio that was 8.5% alcohol, and served in a quart mug!

[DR-Motion]

mmmmmm, that's my kind of beer:cheers:

This is a socially responsible drink as it reduces the CO2 footprint of the beverage.... two beers and your not allowed to drive.

Does this mean I can earn carbon credits by drinking stronger beer? Must do more research.

selflessly dedicated regards,

Gary

[arizonavideo]

This is my first post here at CNC I would like to say hi to all.

It does look like we could be in for around ten years of global cooling. If this proves true would any of the GW believers change there tune?

Think about it, year after year of the global temp going down and millions and millions of people claiming they know better and we should ignore the fact that it is cooling.

The global temp went down .7 deg in the last 13 months. We have been in a multi year cooling trend and no one is talking about it. In fact I have seen reports from "scientist" showing in a vary complex way that even though it is cooling we should still call it warming.

I don't want to attack the belief system of the believers but if it is cooling then it is cooling.

I know short term temps mean little but most of the data used in the models ignore things like the medieval warming period or the fact that NASA misreported the average global temps for many years and just corrected itself this year.

Get back to me in five years after global cooling has caused world wide starvation in many places and hundred of thousand die.

[SNERLAND]

Maybe that is why the new catch phrase is Climate Change. Global Warming is out.

[dynosor]

I don't want to attack the belief system of the believers but if it is cooling then it is cooling.

That is exactly why Gore wants us to "act now" by slipping our collective necks into the UN's energy control noose, before it becomes as obvious as the emperor's shrunken wobbly bits that the threat of global warming is BS.

[Geof]

T.....It does look like we could be in for around ten years of global cooling. If this proves true would any of the GW believers change there tune?....

....I know short term temps mean little but most of the data used in the models ignore things like the medieval warming period......

Get back to me in five years after global cooling has caused world wide starvation in many places and hundred of thousand die.

The medieval warming period preceded what is now called the Little Ice Age. A period during which sunspot activity was anomalously low; the latter part of which has been termed the Maunder Minimum. If the Sun had unusually low sunspot activity then, it certainly had it on previous occasions, and it will have it again.

If you do much reading on archeology it is interesting to note that major civilizations seem to collapse on a time frame of about 1000 years (plus or minus something). If you have read anything about the ice cores taken from the Greenland Ice Cap and the Antarctic Ice Cap, you will have seen mention of a 1000 year (approximately) ripple in the temperature profile derived from the cores; a ripple that cannot be assigned to any cause and is often dismissed as an artifact of the ice formation from compressed snow layers.

Maybe the Sun goes into a very low cycle of sunspot activity every 1000 years (plus or minus something). Maybe Little Ice Ages occur every 1000 years (plus or minus something). Maybe this is what caused the demise of civilizations every 1000 years (plus or minus something). Maybe there is some credence in the idea that the potato, a good food source that can tolerate cold weather, compensated for the decline in wheat harvests, and protected European civilization from serious collapse during the most recent Little Ice Age. Maybe we are just entering the next prolonged period of anomalously low sunspot activity, i.e. entering another Little Ice Age. It is about 1000 years (plus or minus something) since the onset of the last one.

[jhowelb]

That is exactly why Gore wants us to "act now" by slipping our collective necks into the UN's energy control noose, before it becomes as obvious as the emperor's shrunken wobbly bits that the threat of global warming is BS.

And so do ALL THREE prexy candidates! We are SOOOO screwed!!

[NinerSevenTango]

Check out the current sunspots image on the SOHO website. Dead quiet. That means it is likely to get colder. If we get a serious volcano eruption, it's going to get a LOT colder.

[Geof]

Check out the current sunspots image on the SOHO website. Dead quiet. ...

Or ask any friends who are Ham Radio operators. One guy who works for me is having a grand time making long distance contacts, he and the others in his club have never known it to be so good.

[handlewanker]

Just saw the article on the Yahoo news about windmills being planned for the USA big time by 2030.

All very well, but this means that they will be monsters and as such will not be within the realms of anything DIY can achieve.

This means that the production of electrics will still be in the hands of the Central Control, unless they are all privately owned and you take out shares in your own local private wirlybird, thus controling your own price structure, pity if your one is in still air while the others are turning.

To offset this you would have to spread your portfolio over all the wirlybirds, but isn't this what you are doing right now by being billed from the grid?

Nahh, you only rent the grid whereas you own part of the 'birds outright.

I can't see the Central control letting you have that much power in your hands, (pun intended).

I would have liked to see the research and development of photo cells that would be attached to each home, so that you would at least have a means to offset your power bills according to your individual demands, and by a device that is paid for once as opposed to "renting" a bit of the local power station for the term of your natural.

If you read the Nielsen report it is apparent that there is a huge potential just waiting to be tapped into, and this doesn't mention wind power.

BTW, re back a few posts, I have always related to KWh as a 1KW electric heater burning for one hour which is one Unit of electricity, and an 800 Watt electric motor is more or less 1HP.

Which means as my car engine is rated at 186 HP, then it is 148.8 KW approx?

Amp hours I can relate to, which means my 12 Volt car battery is rated at 480 amp/hrs, which means it will supply 480 amps for one hour or 1 amp for 480 hours etc.

So, Watts = Amps X Volts, and we have 12 volts X 480 amps = 5760 watts, or 5.76Kw, this means my battery is rated at 5.76KWh?

I'll have to go back a post or two to see how that relates to joules.
Ian.

[Geof]

.....BTW, re back a few posts, I have always related to KWh as a 1KW electric heater burning for one hour which is one Unit of electricity, and an 800 Watt electric motor is more or less 1HP.

(1)Which means as my car engine is rated at 186 HP, then it is 148.8 KW approx?

Amp hours I can relate to, which means my 12 Volt car battery is rated at 480 amp/hrs, which means it will supply 480 amps for one hour or 1 amp for 480 hours etc.

(2)So, Watts = Amps X Volts, and we have 12 volts X 480 amps = 5760 watts, or 5.76Kw, this means my battery is rated at 5.76KWh?

I'll have to go back a post or two to see how that relates to joules.
Ian.

(1) Yes. All the energy collected from the solar cells mentioned above is enough for a few minutes of driving.

(2) Yes. But when batteries are charged and discharged there are inefficiencies. The collected energy from above would be enough to charge two batteries so when you use it for your electric car you have two thirds of a few minutes of driving.

A joule is one watt flowing for one second, I beleive Mariss had this in his figures.

[dynosor]

I would have liked to see the research and development of photo cells that would be attached to each home, so that you would at least have a means to offset your power bills according to your individual demands, and by a device that is paid for once as opposed to "renting" a bit of the local power station for the term of your natural.

I may have bad information, but PV solar power sufficient to make one independant of the grid will cost the average home owner $30,000 in the US. The panels only last 25 years, so in effect you have just paid your electric bill up front for the next 1/4 century and then you own a fancy ornament on your roof.

Unless you can store the energy from your PVs so you can use it at night you will still depend on the grid and have to pay the fees that apply.

[CNC_Programmer]

I may have bad information, but PV solar power sufficient to make one independant of the grid will cost the average home owner $30,000 in the US. The panels only last 25 years, so in effect you have just paid your electric bill up front for the next 1/4 century and then you own a fancy ornament on your roof.

Unless you can store the energy from your PVs so you can use it at night you will still depend on the grid and have to pay the fees that apply.

I can't remember the details but..... I saw i on the Science channel the other day a light flexible film that outperforms current grid offerings by many times and can be shaped to roof (or other) contours so it does not need a "frame". Also capable of operation at a number of degrees from direct so rotators are not needed. If I see it again, I'll try to get additional info!

[mongo46538]

All us Liberal fanatics whined about Nuclear power back in the 70's without any thought towards the ramifications of a diminishing source of electrical power. Back to the Future I say. Start building modern nuclear power reactors now because as soon as battery technology really gets up to speed we will be driving electric vehicles. :rainfro: