[scratch_6057]

I thought I had convinced myself not to post this, but the more I think about
it the less certain I am, so I’ going to post it anyway. In the end it might help
to point someone else in the right direction, or steer them away from the
wrong direction.

I received my copy of the Rockcliff plans the first of this week, and I’m
looking at a couple of different options The ‘A1 – A10’ or ‘S1 – S10’ plans
(still using MDF), or a Modified version using UHMW (high strength HDPE)
Channel for supported guide ways & strips for linear bearings (my design,
currently on the drawing board, if I go this route I’ll post pics & info).

My Question:
The plans have a callout for a McMaster-Carr part number to use for rails,
which I found without any problem. The material is a bit more expensive than
I was thinking / led to believe it would be, but the biggest issue is that they
have it marked for a TWO WEEK DELIVERY TIME. I did a little shopping around
on the WEB and found material at onlinemetals.com with the same diameter
and composition for considerably less money but the material at
onlinemetals.com has no information with regard to the finish. The McMaster-
Carr part specifies Tight-Tolerance RodsPrecision Ground Finish, Diameter
tolerance is -0.0005".

Would anyone happen to know, if I order from onlinemetals.com, will I get
something useable or end up with rod that has a finish like “Black Iron” Gas
Pipe?

Other sources for the solid ground rod specified in the plan set? I have
already checked MSC, & Grainger, Motion Industries WAY more money than I
have to spend on this. I’ll be checking with “ Metal Supermarkets” on
Monday. What about ENCO, anybody order rod for the Rockcliff from them?

Thanks

PS I know I’m being vague with specifics on the rod, but I don’t know if I
have a right to divulge info in the Rockcliff Plans

[waxwhacker]

I'm am printing my plans as I type this, I have most of my controll figured out and on hand, what I need to consider now is what to use for a spindle? Seems like that's a problem every one has, I really am not that concerned with ABSOULUTE accuracy, since this is mostly for doing wood working, and I don't need it for metal I'll settle for +/- .010.
I don't want to use a Dremel tool due to it's lack of torque, I was wondering how those who have used a rotozip feel about them and what are the options with a trim router, I would like the option of being able to use 1/8 shank ans well as 1/4 inch shank tools.
My fixed gantry unit will have a cutting area of 18"x16" I have some 3/4 drill rod and UHMW for my slides, and after careful consideration think I will use 1/2-20tpi with delrin nuts for lead screws, also I thought there was a Yahoo forum for the Rockcliff builders, any information?
As soon as I get started which will be when the rain stops, I'll post some pics
Thanks
Ken Ferrell

[rockcliff]

You can get the ground shafting from metalsupermarkets, it should be cheaper than mcmaster this shafting has many names that it is called by different suppliers and people, the official name used by metalsupermarkets should be "1045 Ground Shafting "see Don's Machine I think he he used shafting from metalsupermarkets and bearings from Lowes http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showth...ight=rockcliff he also used a nice rotary tool it looks very compact and sounds good http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Pg3rXm5sxA

We have had the group open for members for a few months now, we do invite all who purchase a plan, but unfortunately the invitations are sent thru yahoo with an email address, and some do not get sent, if you have a spam filter turned on or some unknown reason, if you have not recieved an invitation to join from Yahoo please send me an email and I will re-send
http://www.rockcliffmachine.com

[Ettore]

scratch, I ordered the ground rod from McMaster and received it, shipped from Chicago to Atlanta, in just 2-3 days; about a month ago. Maybe you should contact them directly about availability and shipping time. ettore

[scratch_6057]

Well, KRUD! I just visited my local Metal Supermarket and they quoted
$70.00 (USD) for the six pieces cut to legenth. Called McMaster to verify the
TWO WEEK delivery and they said that it was valid. If I can’t find that rod
Soon, this project may become ANOTHER ONE on the BACK BURNER.
The only other option would be to go ahead with the UHMW Suported Slides.

[scratch_6057]

OK, I bought the UHMW ‘U’ channel material I talked about
earlier, McMaster Part Number 8672K31. 0.125" thick walls & base.
http://www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?pagenum=3464
(I miscalculated **, I should have bought the 9928K53 stuff,
but I’ll make what I got work). My slides are cut from HDPE one inch wide
by three quarter inch thick, twelve inches long.
By the time I finished sanding the slide to remove saw marks I ended
up with 0.97x” wide. That’s alright, as the upright legs have
some ‘rake’ to them, not exactly 90 degrees to the base, which
allows the side walls of the channel to grip the sides of the
linear sides just fine.

The attached picture is a rough sketch of the end view; the ‘bow’
in the base and ‘rake’ are exaggerated in the drawing for
EMPHASIS. When the bottom of the channel is screwed to the MDF
base, I expect the inward side pressure of the upright legs to
decrease a bit.

** As I said, I miscalculated the size of the channel, if I had
used the smaller channel (part number 9928K53) I could have made
the slides three quarters wide and had more flexibility in their
height.
(As an afterthought, if the ‘Y AXIS’ was to be rack & pinion
driven the motor-pinion mounted thru the bottom of the base and
rack mounted to the bottom of the sliding table this existing
channel slide thickness may be an option.)

Small acid/epoxy or foam paintbrushes could be attached to the
ends of the slides to keep the channels clear of chips, dust,
etc. If foam brusher were used, they could retain lubricant for
the slides (WD-40 was found to work rather well).

The entire slide & channel combination could be inverted so that
the channel is attached to the bottom of the sliding table. This
would be a more economical way to go as it would require less of
the UHMW Channel material.

One other thing I’ll mention right now is ‘slick tape’ which is
a HDPE / UHMW type adhesive backed tape in various thicknesses.
Rockler sells some as ‘NYLO-TAPE’ in 10 and 20 MILs
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=214
McMaster sells thinner versions as ‘Strong and Slippery UHMW
Polyethylene Tape’
http://www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?pagenum=3328
These tapes could be used to adjust the size of plastic parts or added to
sliding parts made from MDF or other material.

[Kammo1]

Hi just a little off topic here do the Rockcliff people do these plans with a moving gantry instead of the moving table ???

[macgemby]

Hi just a little off topic here do the Rockcliff people do these plans with a moving gantry instead of the moving table ???

Yes they include option for moving gantry also larger model
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showth...ight=rockcliff

[Athreo 1]

You should be able to purchase "drill rod" from almost anybody. The specs are usually +/-.0005". I have purchased the cheap drill rod from Wholesale Tool and it worked great.

[dwacker]

can anybody tell me how to flat the table?

Get all the axis as close as you can the face it off with your router after the machine is all done. They dont really make a real facing bit with a .25 shaft but a plain woodworking .5 router bit does a pretty good job.

Don

[Harrybaldacc]

Hi everybody, I am so envious on you lot , as I also have build the Rockcliff
Machine, but "Alas" I can not get it going, I have got some movement some time and sometime none, I have tried very hard to make my Mach3 and I find
that no matter how I configure it makes no difference as I could not make it work properly, I have obtained the Xylotex stepper motors. Please Help.
I need step by step instructions from the beginning, the motor screws are 1/4 20 TPI , thats all IO know.

[macgemby]

Hi Harry
you might have the speed set too fast, try starting at a slower speed in mach.
Mac

[dwacker]

Hi Harry
you might have the speed set too fast, try starting at a slower speed in mach.
Mac

A good starting point would be 32000 steps, should get you real close with 1/4-20.

Don

[mwixon]

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attach...6&d=1175128937

We are trying to make rail adjustment blocks like the ones in the above build (link). I didn't think making them out of wood would be a good idea as it would be hard to tap. We tried nylon, but don't really have the tools to work that well (it ate two 1" drill bits). If someone can give us pointers on how they've built the adjustment blocks we'd appreciate it.

[edo]

The linked picture is my machine, so believe me when I tell you they're made of 3/4" MDF. I used a spade bit on a drill press for the center hole. I made a jig to hold the pieces on my small drill press for the holes in the sides - with 48 holes to drill it made it a lot easier. The MDF taps easily. Some super glue on the threads after tapping will help keep them from stripping.

I don't understand how you're ruining drill bits on nylon, I'd think it would easier to drill than MDF.

Here's a picture of the build before paint - proof that they're MDF.
Ed

[Harrybaldacc]

I have build that machine, and no adjustment blocks where needed, as I have
drilled the guide holes together, and to the right size of the guide bars, then I made plastic end caps to hold them in place, I noticed that your guide bars
are far too big, all other guide bar brackets where also drilled together to size,
however as you have already build the machine, I suggest that you make the blocks from aluminium and screw them to the sides first.

[Harrybaldacc]

Hi My name is Harry, I want to thank all those guys that have helped with my
Mach3 and my "Rockliff router, I have now made freinds with the machine, and I am having fun using it, the only thing I wuold like to have help on is
"to make the fast travel to go faster" the G00, and as for the rest, I am putting in more time to understand Mach3, I also think that Mach3 is a much
too powerfull programe for the ruoter guys, who want to use 3 axis

[mwixon]

I was surprised about the trouble milling the nylon as well. It was 3/4" thick 6/6 nylon from mcmaster. First I tried a brand new 1" spade bit in my drill press that didn't even take the cut lines off the nylon. Second my son and I tried a 1" twist bit that was also fairly new in a hand heald drill. Neither made it all the way through.

Thanks for the tip on the MDF. We have our machine pretty much done, however something must have moved on the X rails before the glue dried and we're getting binding. I want to take those blocks off and make adjusement blocks for those rails.

We will try the mdf method. What is that hardware you used for adjustment screws? It looks like it's more than just a screw. I got some 1/2 20 screws we were planning on using.

-Mike and Ian.

The linked picture is my machine, so believe me when I tell you they're made of 3/4" MDF. I used a spade bit on a drill press for the center hole. I made a jig to hold the pieces on my small drill press for the holes in the sides - with 48 holes to drill it made it a lot easier. The MDF taps easily. Some super glue on the threads after tapping will help keep them from stripping.

I don't understand how you're ruining drill bits on nylon, I'd think it would easier to drill than MDF.

Here's a picture of the build before paint - proof that they're MDF.
Ed

[dan dimock]

Harry;

I went with Quickstep. It is one of the best that I found, Take a look at it if you want a simple software setup.

Dan

[edo]

mwixon -
The sides on the blocks were drilled .201" (#7 bit or you can go a little oversize with a 13/64" bit). The holes are threaded 1/4-20 UNC. The bolts are hex head 1/4 x 1" and there're 1/4" nuts on the bolts. Once the bolts are adjusted, you tighten the nut (slightly) to keep the bolt from vibrating loose.
You may be able to get away with 1/2" screws, but the MDF is only 3/4" thick - it may split on you.

The blocks are held to the machine with #10 x 1 1/2 machine screws (one in each corner). I threaded all the places where they mount: on the ends of the machine, the gantry, and the Z axis.

All the dimensions are in the JGRO drawings.

Harry -
I sure wish I could have drilled mounting holes for the rods perfectly (it would have saved me from drilling 156 holes and tapping 96 of them. These blocks, however, give me the ability to fine tune the table to ensure the X, Y, & Z are all perpendicular to the table and the X & Y are perpendicular to each other.

Ed