[wnnelson]

Hi Mycroft2152 I think you will need a very thin carrier (paper)for the PCB but it may work as there is really a lot of slop in the C** range of printers. That was my first thought when looking at my C88. You may need thinner stock too 1/32"? It may not print with as much resolution as some ink nozzles will be shooting farther than others and this may spread the ink. But good luck with it as it will save a whole lot of work. My new mod for the C** series are new bushings for the feed bar. I made them and they work great. This lowered the bar .100". My only problem is I killed the print head with cleaner (shorted out). I took it apart and found the flat ribbon cable at the printhead was fried. Cut off the bad part of cable cleaned it up but still no printing. Nozzles are clear as I checked that when I had the head apart. This printer is still under warranty, maybe I can get a replacement for clogged head. It would be great to have a manual. Anybody have one?

[scratch_6057]

It's 2:30 am here now, Ive been tearing apart a stylus color 660
for 3.5 hours (good thing I have a second one, I'll need to check
some sensor timeings). Can I go to bed now? Things will be much
clearer after a couple of hours sleep.

[epineh]

It's 2:30 am here now, Ive been tearing apart a stylus color 660
for 3.5 hours (good thing I have a second one, I'll need to check
some sensor timeings). Can I go to bed now? Things will be much
clearer after a couple of hours sleep.

Have you got it working, did you do a test run? How can you sleep not knowing if it is going to work ????

You have a few more hours before daylight, I'm sure you can get it going before you have to go to work...

Russell.

[epineh]

Erm, I was just kidding Mike, it's a couple of hours later and I can see you are still logged on , hope you haven't fallen asleep on top of your keyboard...lol

Russell.

[epineh]

@c88mod
do you mean it's only heating PCB and etching with fecl ?
no need to coating with acid (H-Cl + H2-O2) ?

Just re-read through the thread again(phew) and I missed this post originally, dytln_o2 - yup all we are doing for this process is to pre-heat the board, print the artwork, then "Cure" the board at 230 deg. celsius for about 3 mins, then etch, I do clean the board first, I use methylated spirits and a scotchbrite kitchen scourer, then wipe clean with a soft clean rag. To clean the board after etching I use acetone and a clean rag.

I found the metho better than acetone for the first cleaning as it tends to take the gunk with it when you wipe with a rag, where acetone seems to dissapear and leave the gunk almost glued to the copper.

C88mod, how are you going with versII ?

Russell.

[OCNC]

I hacked a dead 740i last night. The linear shaft has enough adjustablity built into the mechanism that it doesn't appear that the unit needs any structural mods at all. Just removing the plastic parts to create the straight-through feed path seems to be sufficient. What kind of minimum clearance is necessary between the print head nozzle surface and the work material? Is it just, 'as close as possible without interference' or should there be a defined gap or should it glide on the surface as there does seem to be a 'floating' kind of capability? One possible draw back on the 740 series is that the color ink is in a single cartridge. In the photos below I've put 6 layers of card stock under the print head and there is still some room left. The vernier says that's 180 thou which should take care of the circuit boards in common use. The adjustability is controlled by the blue lever which rotates the linear guide shaft which is supported by an eccentric pin in it's end and this again rides in an eccentric position in a plastic bushing that can be adjusted by rotating the white plastic arm that is screwed to frame. The white arm gives the rough adjustment and the blue lever gives the fine control. Any thought about this set up? Unfortunately I can only roll the material through the feed manually and confirm that there is more than eough clearance for a PC board. The optical sensor for the paper feed is on the plastic sheet feeder that has to be removed to configure for straight through feed and is gear driven. I'm assuming that it could be could be activated manually on each print cycle. If so this would allow dead on in-feed registration with an appropriately placed stop.

Chris

[scratch_6057]

I hacked a dead 740i last night. (snip) The adjustability is controlled by the blue lever which rotates the linear guide shaft which is supported by an eccentric pin in it's end and this again rides in an eccentric position in a plastic bushing that can be adjusted by rotating the white plastic arm that is screwed to frame. The white arm gives the rough adjustment and the blue lever gives the fine control. Any thought about this set up? Unfortunately I can only roll the material through the feed manually and confirm that there is more than eough clearance for a PC board. The optical sensor for the paper feed is on the plastic sheet feeder that has to be removed to configure for straight through feed and is gear driven. I'm assuming that it could be could be activated manually on each print cycle. (snip)
Chris

Chris,
That adjustment looks exactly like my 660. From what you are describing
it sounds like we have the same paper feed mechanism also. I found a window
on the ‘black’ disk that allows the slotted IR isolator to trigger when the flattened
part of the feed rollers is facing the paper. From what I‘m guessing, that triggers
the platen roller to start taking over and feeding (pulling in) the paper. If you notice
the print head triggers that feed drive when it is on the side of the printer opposite
it’s normal resting spot.

Russell,
I THOUGHT I had closed the browser window, (logged out) after the your
previous post. I did kind of try it before I started hacking the printer, I have a
few sheets (~ 18” x 24”) of 0.010” double sided copper clad (got that from a
friend who closed his electronics surplus retail store a couple of months back)
I cut and cleaned a piece and printed on it at 1440 dpi, the ink (oem Epson)
stayed in place but did get a little ‘blotchy’ (pooling ?). I’m reasonably certain
that the ink is pure DYE based, I cooked it in order to cure it but ammonia took
it right off. Haven’t attempted to etch with this ink yet. I probably need to get
flushing and refill supplies, don’t know if I can find pre filled carts for this OLD
printer but I don’t think I have to worry with “CHIPED" cartridges with this one.
What is most highly recommended?

FWIW, these carts are Epson PN SO20187 Black, SO20191 Color

[scratch_6057]

I just can’t help but wonder if Epson is not sitting back
waiting for results from all this ‘Development Work”
before they introduce a low cost PCB printer to the market.

If they only knew what happens to those old printers. . .

[randyf1965]

What about the EPSON Stylus Photo R260 Inkjet DVD/CD Printer?

Prints a 4x6 broderless picture and will print on a cd/dvd...... appear to be cheap in price ~$90 US

[epineh]

Mike, apparently the dye based ink isn't a good resist, I tried googling the numbers you listed, but didn't really get any more info... it seems that Google is leaning away from being a search engine and becoming an advertising engine, might be time to find a different (real) one. If you can re-fill the carts with MISPRO ink you will be laughing, just buy a bulk magenta refill and fill all the carts with that.

It would be funny if Epson were following thread such as this, I wonder if we will get a commission from their all new PCB printing device...might keep my day job for a while just in case.

Randy, I think the CD printers work, but are a bit of a PITA to setup, not too sure but I dont think it's as simple as it might sound, I could be wrong though.

Russell.

[scratch_6057]

Is anyone using carrier sheets? My ‘platen roller’ is a hard textured surface
type of thing (no, it’s not dirty rubber), by manually driving the gears
I find that I’ll have tape my PCB material to a carrier sheet (110lb card stock)
otherwise the roller slips on the underside surface of the copper clad.

I guess this could be a GOOD thing to protect both sides if I get around
to doing double sided boards, not a show stopper by any stretch.
I already have a registration process on the mental drafting board.

I REALLY had the printer torn down about the only thing still holding
it all together was SNOT and WISHES but I wasn’t comfortable with those
@#$@$% ‘Pizza Wheels’ being so close to the upper surface of the board
so it had to be done. Put a couple of pieces back in to keep everything
structurally sound, things are much better now.

I did manage to get the paper load mechanism removed and yet leave
all sensors intact (no broken or cut wires, yeh) I found out the slotted
IR sensor on the paper loader will trigger the printer head to return to
the parked position after the power up with EITHER a
Light – Dark – Light pulse or a Dark – Light – Dark pulse, as long as
it sees some kind of pulse it acts like it’s happy.

Russell, re the ink, (yea again) from what I think I remember reading
the ink I want is the PIGMENTED variety, correct?

I did find The MIS site, http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm for anyone
else who is looking.

OK so now I guess its time (probably this weekend) to drag out the second
660 and look at timings of the sensors.

Doesn’t this ALL belong on www.hackingprinters.com ?

[kowell]

Manuals ?????::withstupi

If you are going to pull apart your printer , as many are doing ,check this Link

http://www.eserviceinfo.com/index.php?what=search
( Posted At Yahoo home brew PCB group )

They just might have diagrams of its construction , and adjustment programs..
Would have saved me a few hours if i had these first.

Kym

[epineh]

yup you want the pigmented ink, I use a carrier, its just a 1mm thick card, the wife is into scrapbooking, so I have an endless supply...heh, unless I get busted that is. It also grips the rollers well, I was going to use sheetmetal for this but I thought it might cause slipping problems.

I am going to put a 1.6mm thick piece of card or sheetmetal in front of the PCB to be printed so the rollers don't have to jump up and over the PCB, also use it for alignment.
I got rid of the pizza cutting wheels and left the white plastic wheel assemblies in place, took the middle one out though. They seem to drop down under spring pressure enough to rest on the roller bar, and push up over the card once it is loaded and ready to print.

The next PCB run I do I will capture video, might be helpful...

Russell.

[C88mod]

C88mod, how are you going with versII ?

Russell.

Hi Russell,
It's going slow right now, I lowered the main metal feed shaft,
giving it the clearance it needs, upon doing so now the
pump function is useless.
The main pressure rollers were semi broke trying to remove them.
If i cannot get it to feed properly then i will goto plan B and make a conveyor belt for it.
(or plan C and start over on another printer)

I have an old c82 which has alot more clearance hackability than a c88 ever will.
The c82 was built for thicker stock printing, i have shoved a .060 board through
the front of it and the printhead just clears it. (when the lever is in letter mode)

What about HP printers, the recent ones seem to have 1200+rez, have pigment inks
and the head in cartridge thermal inkjet makes it way less expensive to replace destroyed heads.

[epineh]

I will give a little more detail on the carrier I am using, I made a new one tonight and thought I would show some photo's and a video of it running through the machine.

Firstly the card itself and another of a PCB to show alignment method. I used 1mm thick card as the base, plus a sandwich of 1mm and 0.6mm card for the leading edge, to set the rollers at the right height for when the PCB passes under the rollers, and not jam. (ask me how I know that happens!!). The strip down the side is to square up the PCB.

Third pic is side on to show the heights of the leading edge and PCB, not too bad if I do say so myself.

Russell.

[epineh]

Next is the PCB mounting method, as there is hardly any force on the PCB, only the rollers rolling over, I just use double sided tape, but in small amounts.

Those of you with CNC machines will probably already have some of this stuff, it is the stuff carpet layers use, very thin and very sticky.

Russell.

[epineh]

Now for the video, I just took a vid of the printer feeding the carrier out upon startup, I haven't got any printing video yet, I am still working on the schematic, but this will show you the feed mechanism anyway.

Russell.
<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/mqoDGDifyzw"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/mqoDGDifyzw" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

[epineh]

Hmm not working (chair)
Try this link, until I can sort the video stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqoDGDifyzw

[C88mod]

Hmm not working (chair)
Try this link, until I can sort the video stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqoDGDifyzw

Nice video, mine is all fixed exept the building of the tray.
I lost my purge pump in the process of lowering the feed shaft for clearance.
(the pump gear will not align anymore)
i now have ~.130" clearance on a level printhead,
as for the initial purge, i will do that manually
with a syringe hooked to the purge pump tube.

[wnnelson]

I lowered the feed bar like C88MOD without hacking the frame. I made new bushings to put in the original mounting holes. The max offset for the bushing was .1 " I also turned down the out feed rubber rollers to give a flat path out for the carrier. I will research new gears to go on the end of the feed bar and pump but it is not important. I haven't figured out the gear ratios yet and don't want a setup that will pump too fast (drain the carts). Everything feeds great just can't print since I killed the head. Everybody here seems to be making great progress. I tried to get somebody over at a chemistry group to answer questions about alternates to ink but only got one reply. His reply was very generic:

"Dye-based inks are soluble. Pigments
are insoluble. What you want are plastic resins, soluble or insoluble,
straight-chain thermoplastic or cross-linked thermosetting."

I wrote back for more specifics but got no futher replies from the group. Either there is no interest or I'm not asking a high brow enough question for them. They had a huge flame war about how FeCl will not etch copper. It was very intense about how chemicaly that reaction will not take place. I guess it takes a brain bigger than mine to figure out that what my eyes see is not happening.