[SyilAmerica]

BobCAD/CAM does have it’s quirkiness about it. No doubts about it. It is somewhat convoluted in “steps”. The whole model/select, select/model thing is somewhat hard to remember. The graphical interface doesn’t remind me of the latest Pixar movie. All said though. I firmly believe that it is the greatest “value” you can buy. It is an “integrated” cad/cam system. Because of its close relationship between the two, it can be a great asset. Argue if you will the shortcomings of it, but I still see the logic in value.

[millman52]

I can't advise you at all which is better. I have used AutoCad V14 for several years. I have barely scratched the surface of what it will do. I use it mainly to generate mechanical drawings for my machine shop.

I am in the design stage & soon will begin the "build" of a CNC burning table. For that I found I needed a CAM software & for a burning table I also wanted nesting software. I was ablt to purchase BobCAD/CAM with BobArt-X & Bobnest & 18 months of tech support for under $1000.00.

One down side to BobCad is they have a very aggressive sales team. You have to ask them at times....... "WHAT PART OF NO DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND"

[braidmeister]

Like Toby pointed out at the beginning of this thread, only YOU can decide what works best for your needs.

Personally, if I was your age & just starting out, I would buy Rhino, and if you could swing it RhinoCAM. Since you are of age, it might not be a bad idea to try to get an educational version at a discount. I think that if you start drawing in BobCAD it will RUIN your brain...Rhino will give you a good foundation for many other packages, and make learning much easier.

Make sure when you fill out the BobCAD info sheet that you give them ALL of your phone numbers, not just your home phone (include your cell, beeper and what room you'll be in at any given time of the day at school) so that they will be able to reach you every time there is an exciting offer...Seriously, as others have pointed out, don't spend full price for BC. Hold out until it is $500 or LESS including the manual AND video tutorials. I can tell you that not many professionals use BC, but many pros use Rhino & RhinoCAM...of course BC sales will tell you otherwise. I own BC by the way, and paid full price...It's sitting on the shelf holding up books at the moment...

If you are just getting into CNC and want an easy to learn and powerful 2D CAD?CAM package you would do very well with ArtCAM Insignia-E (Around $800) or Vectric's V-Carve Pro. You can draw, import existing vectors (DXF, EPS, AI etc) into these programs and toolpath them easily.

-B

[SyilAmerica]

I think that you can not make a statement that many professional don't use BobCAD. There are several 1,000s of professionals using it. You just have a preferance that is differant than theirs.

[braidmeister]

I think that you can not make a statement that many professional don't use BobCAD. There are several 1,000s of professionals using it. You just have a preferance that is differant than theirs.

Really? BobCAD couldn't give me even ONE professional within 200 miles of Philly, PA as a reference. BC is not suited for a professional CNC job shop. It is not efficient enough for the types of things than need to be created and toolpathed quickly AND reliably.

Now...I think that it is GREAT that BC exists in the marketplace for very small shops that produce a few of the SAME things over and over again, AND for hobbiests to get into the game. I'll give them props for that sector of the market. As far as being robust enough for a Pro, it isn't. Their software is never finished as a complete release...it's always '...but version XYZ is going to be really great..." If BC wants respect from Pros, they should get complete on their product first before calling me 47 times to get me to buy an upgrade to fix problems in the release that I bought. Everybody else issues free patches in acknowledgement that they screwed up, why should I pay them to fix what should have been right in the 1st place?

To be fair, I am completely open to seeing examples of product components (real selling products) AND hearing from real professionals that use this software...just a few out of the 'thousands' shouldn't be hard to muster up.

Again, it's great that BC exists to fulfill a specific niche in the marketplace for guys getting started...I can only comment as a CUSTOMER of BC and my experience.

-B

[spoiledbrat]

Braidmeister-

I completely agree with you as far as the Rhino/BC comparison.

Rhino = intuitive and graceful manipulation of surfaces/solids.
BC= Should I really be wasting my time learning this?

I was recently pressured by a sales guy that would tell me anything I wanted to hear if I would just act now. I asked if BC's parallel finish routing could generate G02/G03 moves in the X-Z / Y-Z planes, and he said it would. Mastercam does it, anyone believe BC can do it?

I have been using Rhino for almost 8 years now. I am now to the point where I can go from a company logo to a carved product in about 6 hours (1 hr machining)

I would like to challenge anyone with bobcad to make draw/carve one of these:

I could barely draw a curve in BC without wanting to throw a wrench at my screen. Might make the GUI look sharper, too.

[braidmeister]

Hey I like the spider! Nice work!

I use ArtCAM Pro pretty much exclusively, but there are lots of things that I like using Rhino for...I'm probably on par in ArtCAM as you are in Rhino...but I sure wish I had the Rhino skills too!

-B

[tobyaxis]

Braidmeister-

I completely agree with you as far as the Rhino/BC comparison.

Rhino = intuitive and graceful manipulation of surfaces/solids.
BC= Should I really be wasting my time learning this?

I was recently pressured by a sales guy that would tell me anything I wanted to hear if I would just act now. I asked if BC's parallel finish routing could generate G02/G03 moves in the X-Z / Y-Z planes, and he said it would. Mastercam does it, anyone believe BC can do it?

I have been using Rhino for almost 8 years now. I am now to the point where I can go from a company logo to a carved product in about 6 hours (1 hr machining)

I would like to challenge anyone with bobcad to make draw/carve one of these:

I could barely draw a curve in BC without wanting to throw a wrench at my screen. Might make the GUI look sharper, too.

Are those really drawn by you or Raster to Vector images? Quite impressive work but I think I have those posters of Eddy. True enough that BCC won't perform Arcs in G19 like Mastercam (BCC does arcs in G18 in the Lathe Function), but considering the Price differences Mastercam better do a lot. Rhino on the other hand hasn't any CAM interface yet. Just a Plug In by MadCAM that has to be purchased separately. Unless they have done this in the last 6 months, I could very well be wrong. Virtual Mill 5.0 was offered as well but CRASHED with Files over 25MB.

Speaking from experience with BCC V17, V19, V20, V21, MC V8.1.1, V9.1, a little MCX, and RhinoCAD, I'd have to say that each one has it's own Pros and Cons. Ultimately the choice is still up to the individual.

Cheers :cheers:

[spoiledbrat]

The pictured work is by no means raster to vector images. Eddy was traced in 2d, then I manipulated control points, sweeping and patching surfaces, control point editing, and drinking coffee until 4 am. The model is actually quite sloppy, but with my 3 axis, the top is all that matters. I need to put a bullet hole in eddy's goggles still...

By using the layer commands, I was able to process code for an 80 MB rhino file. Pictures attached, overall plaque = 22" x 30" x 1.5".

As far as Rhino having a cam interface, I have been using rhinocam (a plugin) for a couple of years. It opens with rhino, data is saved into the rhino file. I personally consider it a part of rhino, although is is really visual mill running within. I tried madcam, and although it seems nice, the demo would only let me run 200 lines of code, so I will give it no further purchase consideration.

In the end, Rhino and RhinoCam are about a grand and a half. Best money I ever spent.

[braidmeister]

Brat,
Your reliefs look great for being done in Rhino. I know that relief creation and editing are no small feat in a triangle mesh environment. I wish Rhino was able to edit some of the full 3D scans (STL) that I have done...I can't seem to get it to break apart an STL mesh into control points...not sure why, got any ideas?

I do all of my relief construction and manipulation in ArtCAM. It is pixel-based (like ZBrush's 'pixol' based environment)...It's nice being able to actually sculpt 3D in software than be restricted to rail sweeps and triangle manipulation. You've done well with the tools you're working with!

Keep up the good work!

-Brady

[tobyaxis]

The pictured work is by no means raster to vector images. Eddy was traced in 2d, then I manipulated control points, sweeping and patching surfaces, control point editing, and drinking coffee until 4 am. The model is actually quite sloppy, but with my 3 axis, the top is all that matters. I need to put a bullet hole in eddy's goggles still...

By using the layer commands, I was able to process code for an 80 MB rhino file. Pictures attached, overall plaque = 22" x 30" x 1.5".

As far as Rhino having a cam interface, I have been using rhinocam (a plugin) for a couple of years. It opens with rhino, data is saved into the rhino file. I personally consider it a part of rhino, although is is really visual mill running within. I tried madcam, and although it seems nice, the demo would only let me run 200 lines of code, so I will give it no further purchase consideration.

In the end, Rhino and RhinoCam are about a grand and a half. Best money I ever spent.

Those are very nice. One thing though is that you and I are on two totally different ends of Manufacturing. You create great Art Plaques while I create Parts for Aircraft, Automotive, Military, and Prototype Everything.

Both worlds are challenging but totally different. Gray wants to produce parts for fire arms which falls at my end. Now if he decided to do Engravings on the Stock that would fall at your end.

It would be nice to see Eddy Engraved on the stock of my 410, LOL. "Aces High"!!!!!!

[Death Adder]

Get Rhino4 and try that again. In ver4 you can directly work with meshes.

Also, there are plugin's for ver4 that automatically surface meshes and point clouds.

Brat,
Your reliefs look great for being done in Rhino. I know that relief creation and editing are no small feat in a triangle mesh environment. I wish Rhino was able to edit some of the full 3D scans (STL) that I have done...I can't seem to get it to break apart an STL mesh into control points...not sure why, got any ideas?

I do all of my relief construction and manipulation in ArtCAM. It is pixel-based (like ZBrush's 'pixol' based environment)...It's nice being able to actually sculpt 3D in software than be restricted to rail sweeps and triangle manipulation. You've done well with the tools you're working with!

Keep up the good work!

-Brady

[Death Adder]

Yeah, I'm betting on exaggeration on the part of BobCAD too. I'm up here in the automotive machining capital of the world (Michigan) and I know of no one who uses BobCAD. Not even a single shop that I've ever been to or used. Rhino on the other hand is not so looked down upon. The BobCAD website makes it seem like everyone uses it when in reality you've got to look long and hard to find any serious company who will admit to using it let alone use it at all.

As you said, it's great that hobbyists can have something to play with but come on, Rhino can be gotten fairly reasonably too and RhinoCAM also isnt a fortune.

Really? BobCAD couldn't give me even ONE professional within 200 miles of Philly, PA as a reference. BC is not suited for a professional CNC job shop. It is not efficient enough for the types of things than need to be created and toolpathed quickly AND reliably.
<SNIP>
To be fair, I am completely open to seeing examples of product components (real selling products) AND hearing from real professionals that use this software...just a few out of the 'thousands' shouldn't be hard to muster up.
-B

[tobyaxis]

Hey Death Adder,

What's new? Have you ever tried SolidWorks 2007 backed by Mastercam X2? If you ask me that is one of the best Combinations around. I was scoping out the Pipe bending function at a friends shop. Pretty COOL Stuff!!!!.........:rainfro:

[Death Adder]

Well I have SolidWorks 2007 because I use SurfCAM but no, I haven't yet tried MasterCAM X2.

[tobyaxis]

Well I have SolidWorks 2007 because I use SurfCAM but no, I haven't yet tried MasterCAM X2.

I haven't seen too much of SurfCAM. What are some of the Differences between MCX (not X2, haven't played with it yet, only got a peek) and Surfcam? I have heard rumors of Surfcam Charging a Yearly fee for extortion purposes. Is this true or is someone blowin smoke in the wrong direction?


Just currious is all.

[Death Adder]

I haven't seen much of MC so I dont really know what the differences are. But, you heard right: It's around $2500 a year for maintainance on 3 Axis SurfCAM. Don't pay it and kiss upgrades (even bug fixes) goodbye. That's a fine how do you do!

I haven't seen too much of SurfCAM. What are some of the Differences between MCX (not X2, haven't played with it yet, only got a peek) and Surfcam? I have heard rumors of Surfcam Charging a Yearly fee for extortion purposes. Is this true or is someone blowin smoke in the wrong direction?


Just currious is all.

[tobyaxis]

That STINKS!!!!!!!! But then again, it isn't Crazy Expensive. I also heard that if you want to updrade and skip Versions that you have to pay for every version up to what you want. Is that true too?

[henryblowery]

Hey all. I'm surprised this thread is still going. I finely decided to get DesignCAD. Right now I'm trying to learn how to use it...once I figure it out, I'll get the CAM program that goes with it.

I should have my mill and lathe converted by this summer...hopefully I'll be able to make simple parts with it by fall

Gray

[tobyaxis]

Hey all. I'm surprised this thread is still going. I finely decided to get DesignCAD. Right now I'm trying to learn how to use it...once I figure it out, I'll get the CAM program that goes with it.

I should have my mill and lathe converted by this summer...hopefully I'll be able to make simple parts with it by fall

Gray

Well Congrats on your selection. I hope you enjoy it.

Cheers!!