[jkujawa]

Hello all,
I am very new to this forum, but have spent many hours in the last few days pouring over the wealth of information.

We do product design and very short-run prototyping (eg, 3-5 units) for companies primarily in the marine industry. We do modeling and prototyping in wood, hard and soft plastics, aluminum, and (very infrequently) stainless steel.

We typically farm out the aluminum work, but I’d like to do more of it in-house for speed and ease of doing multiple iterations. A typical job is an aluminum light housing, approx. 5” x 5” x 3” that we need to machine out of 6061 (though it is entirely possible that future jobs will be somewhat larger). Our accuracy needs are fairly modest – if we can get to .001” that is fine (no bearing surfaces or engine parts, gears or the like).

It appears that a manual unit such as the Grizzley machine here: http://www.grizzly.com/products/G3103 will do what I need and also accommodate larger jobs for about $2k to $2500 (depending on whether I go with power feed) and that is pretty comfortable in terms of a budget. Having said that, I have never regretted spending a little more on a higher-quality tool or one with greater functionality so I want to make sure I am making a wise long term purchase.

I also see several people who seem to really like this Syil Super X3 with the CNC conversion (I understand this is $1500 more, has less power, less mass, smaller table, etc, but it has CNC functionality). I design in Solidworks, and I assume I could export designs to this machine (?) or to an intermediate application for translation (??)

I kind of see these options as a “Little, big machine” or a “Big, little machine”. The little big machine obviously being the Grizzley which I cold presumably upgrade with DRO and possibly a CNC conversion at a later date(?). So I guess my question is kind of a 3 part one:

1) What do you think about the Grizzley machines in general, and about the model I identified above?

2) Are there many/any off-the-shelf kits for doing a CNC conversion (at a later time) on a machine like the Grizzley above? If so, are they easy to install and recommended?

3) What are the drawbacks of something like the X3 with CNC? Is it cumbersome to do ‘quick and dirty’ actions like a single simple slot cut without getting into making a program or script something? Does it require additional expensive software? If so, is it hard to learn?

4) Is my perception of the X3 as a “Big, little machine” accurate? Is it better suited to making RC hobby parts and the like, or is it just as capable as the Grizzley machine I am looking at?

One other thing…I have an IBM thinkpad laying around if I need one for the X3, so that would not be an issue. Any other advice is more than welcomed. Very sorry for the long post. As you can see I am pretty ignorant about the whole subject and am eager to learn whatever I can.

Thanks very much for your help!
John

[bdrmachine]

I WILL NOT buy another Grizzy Machine!!!(nuts)

[leberen]

You may regret purchasing a smaller machine for the simple reason of size/capacity.

A larger machine can be very accurate depending if you'll be doing the retrofit or having someone do it (Syil,etc.) A company will ensure the best accuracy, while DIY results can vary on experience of each user.

Any Larger machine can be retrofitted, the X3 is distributed by Harbor Freight. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=93885

Software compatibility depends on your controller along with mill specs, however posts are available for various software/machine combos. There are softwares that have pencil features that allow you to trace rapid moves, etc. Thats a learning process inherent with each software package and they're all different.

I cant vouch for Grizzly, I have an X1 for smaller parts and have already destroyed the plastic spindle gear pushing it too hard -whoops- They take 2 months to arrive when replaced.
The mill is around 100LBS with a Cast Base while its China product, my next mill should have some US or EU craftsmanship if thats still at all available any more.

These are only opinions, take with grain of salt.

[cut more]

jkujawa,
Have you looked on Ebay? Used full size cnc mills sometimes go for about 2-3K. This would give you a ready to run industrial macine. But if you want the fun of conversion then you can still find something. There also must be some used tool dealers near you,try them.

I design in solidworks also but unless you want to pay big bucks for something like Camworks you will still need a cam package.I use Bobcad to program my cnc router.You design the part in Cad, Import it into the Cam package, create the G-code, import it into the cnc, then machine it.
Most cnc machines have a jog mode where you can move the machine for simple machining without needing to make a program for a simple slot or whatever.
I have found Bobcad easy to learn, especially with the training videos.
Cutmore

[jkujawa]

Thanks for all the good info. I have thought of used, but to be honest I am so unfamiliar with the various machines that I don't have confidence that I'd be able to ensure that I'm not getting ripped off.

brdmachine - why the recommendation to stay away from the Grizzley machine? I have a cabinet table saw from them I paid $1k for that I have been very happy with. Of course, a mill is much more of a precision tool. Did you have a bad service experience? Tool wasn't what was advertised? Damaged? Is it just sloppy? Any specifics are appreciated. I don't expect an aerospace-quality machine, but for the money they appear to offer a good product.

I am now leaning toward this unit after some good feedback via IM: http://http://www.grizzly.com/products/G3616 2 hp motor, lube system, 9 1/2 x 31 1/2" table, and at 1300 lbs it should be pretty solid. Any other thoughts??

[Perp]

http://www.grizzly.com/products/G3616

[jkujawa]

Oops! Thanks for the corrected link. Shop Fox sells the same exact machine, just in off-white instead of green:http://www.woodstockint.com/Products/M1008

I don't expect either to be a 'high end' machine, but any thoughts as to which is better, Grizzley or Shop Fox? I was told the president of Grizzley owns shop fox, and while the basic machines are the same the tolerances, inspections, finish, etc. on the SF are a little better...?
Thanks again!
John