[sidi_steve]

Hey Steve,

Here are some of my thoughts - but I just got back from a long-ish bicycle ride. I haven't refueled yet, so the thoughts are less than organized.

Motion Control from Laptop:
Many people are using laptops to control their homebrew cnc machines via a parallel port. However, many other people experience problems using a laptop for motion control. The problems are generally due to slightly lower voltages coming off of the parallel card.
I would recommend trying to find a used desktop. Since I got into the cnc (and now laser and plotter ) hobby, I have collected several cheap computers. I use my nice one in the house for design and such and then keep the rest in the garage. I have one hooked up to my little cnc mill and one hooked up to my laser. And whenever I get a new toy to play with, such as a plotter or something, I have a few extra stacked in a corner. I try to find free ones or ones for less than $20. If I don't need it, sometimes I'll make sure it's running well and resell it for more...
Anyway, a desktop with USB and parallel shouldn't be too hard to find. I wish I were local to ya, I'd give you one to play with.

Retrofitting the Electronics:
I gave considerable thought to redoing the electronics on mine. In fact, I am still considering this route.

There are 3 primary things that you have the ability to control with the IE300:
1. X and Y motion - controlled by software
2. Laser On and Off - controlled by software
3. Laser Intesity - Manually controlled

The easiest electronics swap I can think of is this - to find a flatbed style XY pen plotter. I bought one similar to the attached picture, on eBay for a dollar plus $25 shipping. The one I got can be controlled via parallel or serial connections.

You would start by making sure you could plot the way you want with it. If so, then that is a good start. The next bit would be a little tricky, but these kind of flatbed XY plotters basically use an electro magnet (much like a solenoid) for pen control. It is likely 12v DC , but I haven't checked yet. Now the laser on and off, which you already know works, is as easy to operate as pressing that button. The same 2 wires that are on the backside of that button, can be closed just as easily by use of a relay. So, if you were to go to Radio Shack and buy a relay, then you could easily turn your pen control into laser control. Make sense?

There are other plotters out there that are more readliy available, but the flatbed type are easier to modify. The others have optical paper sensors and paper-size sensors and firmware that would present a far greater challenge to hack.

Retrofitting the Electronics - cnc style:
It would also be possible to buy a 3-axis cnc control card and some steppers. Be sure that the card had at least one software controlled on-off connection.

I believe these can be found from xylotex or hobbycnc, as well as others.

With this method, 2 of the axis will be X and Y. The third axis (called Z) can actually be used to control the laser intensity knob. The on-off can control a relay which can control the laser on-off.

Control of this cnc card would require a desktop computer with a parallel port. Would also require cnc control software - like TurboCNC or Mach3. For this application, Mach3 might be better as it can do what is called constant velocity contouring - meaning that it will adust the speed of X and Y to produce a constant speed. This is important with a laser because depth of cut is affected by speed. Make sense?

Summary:

The easiest thing for now is to see if you can find a cheap parallel card for your laptop - if it cost more than you feel comfortable investing in an additional test, then put that money toward a used desktop. It will likely work better anyway for motion control.

I truly believe that this is your final hurtle between where you are now and getting your IE300 moving and cutting.

The very fact that it goes home means that it can control the motors. The fact that you have pressed the laser test button and you get a beam means that the laser works. You also have the software up and running, so you know that works.

And I can tell you that the software is effectivley hardcoded to require LPT1. So, once you get a computer with a parallel port, you should be off to the races.

The only reason to consider a switch to different electronics is if you either can't get your computer to talk to the laser or if it can't do what you want. But I think you are almost there.

Good luck

Steve

[sidi_steve]

Steve -

1 more thing -
should you choose the cnc route, you wuold also need some method of producing gcode, which is what the cnc control software requires. Basically, it is X, Y and Z data. I have used excel to make it. Once you know what flavor gCode your cnc control software likes, then it is fairly easy to make, but can present an additional hurtle. Not always plug-n-play...

[smparkinson]

Hi sidi_steve,
I wish I lived in sunny California so that I could enlist your help in person. Your depth on knowledge far exceeds mine when it comes to electronic controls. Fact is, I'm pretty much of a wysiwyg kind of guy, so I am probably better off making the best I can with what I have. But your suggestions all make a lot of sence, and I'm sure other members can benefit from them.
I'll be going back up to Vermont in another week or so, and my boss has several old computers laying around that I'm sure he would let me have if the did the job for me. In the meantime, I'll hook up to the family computer with the parellel port in back. Since it will only be for a few days, my wife can't give me too much heat about it. I'll just move things around while she's at work, and be up and running (I hope) before she gets home. In spite of the problems, I'm still very excited about getting this machine working. After all, even a laser engraver as small as this would cost several times what I've paid for this one.
Once again, I cannot express how much your encouragement and information means to me. I will keep you posted, and within the next 24 hours I hope to tell you that things are going great. Thanks again to everyone in this forum. It's great to have access to so many people with similar interests, and I hope that I will be able to provide useful information for you people out there in the near future.
Steve Parkinson
[email protected]

[txcowdog]

Hey Steve,
With all the initial problems you had with broken parts, I was wondering if you had contacted InkExpress about it and what help, if any, they were in trying to help you resolve the problem with broken parts.

[smparkinson]

Hi txcowdog,
Here is a breakdown of my IE300 buying experience with Ink Express so far:

!.) Very prompt responses to my inquiries regarding pricing, shipping costs, etc.

2.) Very fast shipping! From the time I wired payment to their bank to the time I received unit was 7days! I don't think shipping could have been faster than that.

3.) Problems begin. 120/240 voltage converter damaged with loose parts. When I reassembled it, it only put out 60 volts, which dropped down to 4 volts, than nothing.
Note that my reassembly only consisted of securing the actual converter itself to it's it's base, and snapping its switch back together. I did no rewiring. I stress this to assure you that the converter's failure was not due to incorrect rewiring, as no rewiring was done. The sheet metal case was heavily damaged when I received it, with crushed corners and pronounced dents on top which were the result of impacts from the INSIDE of the case. Note that the shipping carton was double walled heavy cardboard with no damage on the outside. This unit was damaged before it was shipped to me.

4.) Exhaust fan provided by Ink Express did not work.

5.) Water pump provided by Ink Express worked for about 10 minutes before it died.

6.) Power cord provided by Ink Express was European style plug, and would not fit the power converter they supplied.

7.) No user manual was supplied.

8.) Printer cable supplied was parellel port style, not USB. ( In fairness I will say that is a problem for me only because my laptop, which I wanted to use with the laser, had no parellel port. I have been advised that using a desktop computer with a parellel port is preferable to laptop.)

What I have done to deal with the above listed problems is as follows:

1.) I found a 120/240 600 voltage converter at a local electronics surplus store for $50. I cut out the front control panel of the converter sent by Ink Express and mounted it to the converter box I got locally, wired it up, and at least was able to use the switch and outlets from the bad converter. This turned out ok, and the replacement converter is putting out between 230 and 240 volts.

2.) I had an old kitchen exhaust fan which I fit to the laser engraver case. I think it pulls out a lot more air than the one they provided even if it had worked.

3.) I had a little water pump I had gotten on sale for $5. from Harbor Freight Tools. I set it up in my 5 gal. drum and again, it is pumping more water than the one provided by Ink Express.

4.) I found an old computer cord in the garage to replace the European style one provided by Ink Express.

5.) I downloaded the user's manual from the Ink Express web site.

No doubt that the voltage converter was the main problem. The company I purchased the replacement from is called Skycraft Surplus, and they have an unbelievable variety of electrical, electronic, and mechanical parts selection. You can check them out at www.skycraftsurplus.com to find things you wouldn't find elsewhere.
The exhaust fan, water pump, and power cord are things you could find locally if you didn't have them laying around. And downloading and printing the usuer's manual was no big deal.
I guess my problem is not so much the fact that I had to do some scrounging around to get the stuff listed above. What bugs me is the response I got from Ink Express when I emailed them about the problems. Leo (the Ink Express rep I had placed the order with) simply said that the converter must have been damaged in shipping, and that I should get one locally. He said that the fan was 240voltd, and should work with the converter (It didn't.) He said nothing about the power cord, and that I could get the user manual from the website. His response gave me the impression that he didn't care, now that the sale had been made. This is an unfortunate attitude from a business perspective. Had he just responded with a little more "after the sale" concern, and maybe offered to offset the price of some possible future equipment sale, I would have felt that he was making an effort to address my problems. This is unfortunate, as I would have definatly considered purchasing equipment from him in the future. They have a CNC router, the IEC6090 with a 24" x 36" work area, which they sell for $2999. plus shipping. It looks like a great machine for the price, and I would have been very interested in buying one had my first purchase been handled with better customer service. In fact, if I hear from Ink Express with a little "after the sale" feedback inquiry, I might still consider another purchase from them.

Sorry about the long reply to a short question, but I wanted to explain my perspective, and the fact is, my response is as much for the people of Ink Express as for you and the other forum members. I still hope to hear from Leo, and I think a certain amount of the above is maybe to some extent cultural misunderstanding and different business perspectives.
Well, I've finished my coffee. Now it's time once again to see if I can get my IE300 up and running. You can be sure that if I do, my next posting will be a happy one!

Steve Parkinson
[email protected]
.

[miljnor]

the IEC6090 with a 24" x 36" work area, which they sell for $2999

I think your confusing ink express with redsail man. inkexpress is ie900/ie1200 and they are more expensive.

and I think Leo works for redsail canada too.

[smparkinson]

My error about Leo. He is the Canada rep for Redsail, and he has been responsive to all my inquiries. I meant to say David Chan from Ink Express. And the cnc router I was speaking of in my last post was the IEC6090 for$2999. which is from Ink Express. I haven't seen any cnc routers on the Redsail website, but I would certainly be interested in seeing what they have besides lasers and plotters. Sorry again for my confusion!

[smparkinson]

I think your confusing ink express with redsail man. inkexpress is ie900/ie1200 and they are more expensive.

and I think Leo works for redsail canada too.

http://www.iehk.net/Products/CNCIEC6090.html
Here is the link to the cnc router I refered was refering to. If you have a link for a similar machine offered by Redsail, please let me know about it. I know sometimes some of these companies have web addresses not linked from their main domain, so it wouldn't suprize me if Redsail does offer this router.
Thanks for your keen eye. I don't want to infer anything negative to Redsail. In fact, I will probably make my next equipment purchase from them if Leo and I can work out the delivery details. Thanks again!

[txcowdog]

It is ridiculous that you have had to go to such extreme lengths to get your laser working and after all you have done, it is still not to the point of functional. From what you have said, it appears that if you can not get it to work you will have a rather large paperweight because I do not think you will get any help from InkExpress. Another Zone member had initial problems with his unit but was able to get it working with little effort but he had to work on it nonetheless. Hearing that these units arrive DOA makes me look elsewhere for a low cost laser because I do not want to be stuck with a non functional box from InkExpress who is 4000 miles away with my money and not providing any service after the sale. Even if you get it working I am still very disappointed that you received no assistance other than lip service from Ink Express. Thanks for your posting. Word of mouth is truly the best advertising.

[diarmaid]

Another Zone member had initial problems with his unit but was able to get it working with little effort but he had to work on it nonetheless. Hearing that these units arrive DOA makes me look elsewhere for a low cost laser because I do not want to be stuck with a non functional box from InkExpress who is 4000 miles away with my money and not providing any service after the sale. Even if you get it working I am still very disappointed that you received no assistance other than lip service from Ink Express. Thanks for your posting.

Steve P, as this thread goes on Im getting more and more irritated with InkExpress. Im going to go with RedSail when I buy. The other zone member Im sure you are aware is Sidi Steve, and its to his merit that he gave an overall good impression of his machine although he had terrible aftersales service also. This service was to the point that I e-mailed InkExpress for him telling them about this site and that I was interested in purchasing but that they were treating him very badly. :boxing: A lot of this was done with S Steve using pm's so your probably unaware of it. Im afraid after following this topic for the past few months I have to say IE seem a bad choice (Although we don't have any others to compare with at this point), and if it wasn't for you & S Steve we wouldnt have any info on them at all. Thankyou & I hope it works out.

Edit: Of course IE's reply to my e-mail was polite but less than helpful. I think they'll be out of business within 24 mths max if they dont sort themselves out.

[sidi_steve]

It is rather sad that we haven't heard one success story for ANY of the low cost lasers.

Ink Express ships quickly and offers timely responses to SALES queries and that's about it. So far, people have complained about BOTH Ink Express and Electronic Utopia.

Sadly, it seems that one must spend THOUSANDS more to get something that will come with anything resembling support.

It would be nice to see if ANYONE has been able to get a non-DOA laser engraver from ANY of the Asian suppliers.

For me, even though mine was DOA (as in, I also had to rebuild my 110 to 220 transformer and do other tinkering) it was worth it. I got it to work and there is no way I could afford anything else.

It would be nice if they were plug-n-play, but it appears that they are not.

I think your disappointment is entirely justified. It is appauling that Ink Express makes no effort to somehow "make it right." One would think they would want to, because it is the right thing to do. Or less altruistically, because a happy customer tells his friends and a peeved customer lets the whole world know thru a forum like this. Do a google search on IE300 and one of the first things that comes up is this forum, talking about their lack of customer service. Still, they don't want to make it right.

For me:
Damaged 110-220 transformer - luckily, I was able to fix mine
water pump - missing parts - New one from ACE $15
Wrong power cable - Euro model - I had a spare computer cable
Plus the whole fact that their manual says you can engrave from outside their software - but you can't - you gotta use their software. Initially problematic, but again, there is a work around.

So, I was ultimately able to get mine working for under $1500, which is rather cheap.

Laser Engraver IE300 = $1199 (now only $999)
Shipping = $270
water pump = $15

It does the job and cost a WHOLE LOT LESS than anything else I could find locally.

My $.02

Steve

[sidi_steve]

Hey Steve,

how is it going today? Have you tried in on your desktop? I hope it's working out.

Steve

[smparkinson]

diarmaid! sidi_steve! Everybody!
IT WORKS! IT WORKS! IT WORKS! AND WITH VECTORS NO LESS! [U]

"Tis a great day, indeed. After hooking up to my desktop with the parellel cable, I did a test run with a circle. I selected "line", which I guess is their term for vector. The positioning was off, but I cut I nice symetrical circle in vector mode. And now that it's connected to the computer, there seem to be some additional choices to make within the software before cutting takes place.
I am going to shut down tonight since I had to move the laser into my bedroom where the desktop computer is. My wife was not pleased to see it there, so I am better off not using it until the morning. Don't these women understand that they married little boys, who like to make stuff, and burn stuff? I guess not.
Anyway, the morning will be the great time for me and my little friend. And tonight I can design some patterns to use in the morning. I had made a numbered grid to help me determine positioning, but the file somehow got corrupted, so determining positioning and actual work area will be the first job. After I get that down I'll make a few templates and than off I go.
For all the headachs, I now have a little laser engraver that can raster and vector, for a total of a little over $1,300. including shipping and my replacement voltage converter. In my book, after all is said and done, it's not such a bad deal. I am indeed a happy camper tonight. I'll check back with you all tomorrow.
Steve Parkinson
[email protected]

[sidi_steve]

Now that IS some good news! Way to go. I am glad you hung in there!

Show us a pic of something you cut, ok.

Be well and good luck,

Steve

[diarmaid]

Woohoooiee!
:wee: :banana: :wee: :banana: :wee:

Congrats. Im so glad its started working after all your trouble. Enjoy it m8.
Now......post some pics!

[smparkinson]

I wish I could tell you that I have been busy lasing, but first I had to get my water pump and exhaust fan up to snuff. The ones they sent me didn't work, and in any case even if the fan had worked, I don't think it would have pulled the volume of air needed. I took an old kitchen exhaust fan and built a wood case for it. I made slight extensions on the sides to match the flanges on the laser case, and wired it up. Right now it just plugs in, but I'll be putting a toggle switch on it.
Anyway, tonight I just did my first real test run with the grid pattern I set up in Moshidraw. The vector pattern came out fine except for the fact that the right half cut off because somehow the pattern cut in landscape rather than portrait orientation, and it ran out of printing area. I think I'll be able to figure that out without too much problem, and it is probably just a matter of determining what they call orientation in their options. I also noticed that there is an option called "versa" which I assume to be a mirror image for cutting stamps and other reverse jobs. I think I also noticed an option that defaults to cutting each line twice, which my test cut did. Again, I think it's just a matter of trial and error to understand the command options. The translation into English phrases could have been better, but I think it will turn out to be fine once I get used to it.
I did notice that two other Chinese companies who also sell the same laser unit under different names and refer to different software, one is called Newlyseal 11, and the other is called Easycut. I downloaded a demo of the English version of the Easycut software, which appears to be German. I don't know if it is a usable program or not, but I'll be giving it a try tomorrow. I Googled Newlyseal 11, and to my untrained eye, the text in the links I found looked to be Russian, but there were some English words in the site. As I have said previously, I don't know electronics, but it seems to me that if the same circuit boards are used in the machines offered by companies other than Ink Express, maybe the other software programs will also work on the IE300.
I'll be doing a lot more experimenting tomarrow, and I will keep you all informed. I think I might even write a book called MOSHIDRAW FOR DUMMIES.

Stephen Parkinson
[email protected]

[miljnor]

No doubt these products are ripped off copyrights or patents from those countries.

I am surprised that none of the world’s gov. are doing anything to quell this type of activity!

[txcowdog]

Hey Steve,
It appears that Stephen has had success at cutting a vector file by selecting "line" in the software. I was wondering if the version of the software you have has a similar option. I think I remember early in this thread that you could not cut anything but jpg and bmp.

[sidi_steve]

Hey Stephen,

So, you did say you cut vectors using "line". Is this in the "Output" screen?

I have looked all over, I could only find "outline" - Where am I going wrong?

Thanks

Steve

[smparkinson]

Hi everybody,
Regarding your comment miljnor, I don't think Moshedraw is a ripped off copyrighted program. It just isn't very good, and if they were going to pirate a graphics software package I think they would have copied something better. On the other hand, they may well have pirated a bunch of features from copyrighted programs and than tied them together. At any rate, the program seems to be usable enough. It just isn't good enough to have been worth stealing.
Regarding txcowdog's comment about my cutting a vector file, I did indeed select "line" in the software. I have not yet done a raster file, and will be testing other files today and will let you all know about the results.
sidi_steve had earlier stated that he wasn't able to cut vectors, but had later on discovered how to do this within the software. He posted detailed information about how he succeeded in importing a vector file of a gear he had designed and than cut within Moshedraw. His results were hard won, and they will help me and anyone else who is trying to learn how to use Moshedraw effectivly. Sharing his experiences with us, he continues to contribute valuable techniques and information with us.
I again wish to thank all of you who have offered opinions and advise to me even before I decided to purchase my IE300. While I have often logged on to forum's covering a variety of subjects, without a doubt, this forum's members contribute more and better information than any place I have found on the web. I can't thank it's members enough, and I only hope that my own observations help it's others as much as I have been helped here.

Stephen Parkinson
[email protected]